261 replies to this topic

[evoderby]

Wow....a somewhat conservative crowd here

An electric waterpump/fan has many advantages over the standard mechanical setup, it also has some disadvantages. As anything in life its a compromise....choosing between the one and the other is all about which compromise suits you best.

Advantage electric pump:

-pump speed is no longer dependent on engine speed. This means the pump can already shift masses of water at idle/low speed, of course a mechanical water pump equipped with a small enough pulley can shift similar amounts....it will then however start cavitating at higher revs. Use a motorsport pulley to tune the waterpump revs down and things become a bit marginal at idle / low revs.
-is very efficient. The mechanical pump/fan combo are true power sappers. Especially since the mech fan continuously runs, also when its not at all needed (speeds above about 40 mph which generate ample airflow over the rad). Since pumping losses are a cube function to speed, the difference between running the engine at say 2500 vs 5000 rpm (twice as fast) consumes 2^3 or 8 times the power. Accordingly, running an electric pump/fan noticably frees up engine power....and its not just the butt dyno, KAD had some dyno tests on their site that show significant gains.
-allows a very quick and efficient engine warm up after cold start when used with a digital controller.
-allows cooling after engine shut down
-can be very rewarding if you like a good project and engineer solutions from scratch

Downsides:
-it has not been designed in 1959, so it changes the appearance of the engine bay in a non period correct way
-if things break down, electrical failure might be somewhat more difficult to diagnose roadside than a broken mechanical belt
-you can not rely on your trusty Haynes manual to install the system, but have to know what youre doing in the first place
-finding room for the pump when running a side rad can be a challenge

Ok so that covers water pumps.....now please tell me about the Lambo;-)

Edited by evoderby, 28 February 2018 - 05:55 AM.

[Tonylamb]

It was the same problem with the Lambo, horrible flow of water at idle with front radiator and mid/rear engine. V8 shoe horned into a small place produces lots of heat. Solution in traffic was often to rev engine a little to increase flow. I changed the ancient rad fans one of which came on with a dash switch (probably to save relay costs, the electrics are agricultural at best) for two modern ones and it has sorted the problem, mostly. The problem is where do you put the pump and electrics. If I dont put it on the mini I might well one day put it on the Urraco.

As for the car I restored it over 10 years from a hulk body work was good but engine with 4 twin choke IDF Webers was a mess and I rebuilt it from scratch TWICE.

Theres an article about it in Classic and Sports car magazine December 17 issue or look up THE BABY BULL a lamborghini Story on You Tube. Its a bit embarrassing but nice production by a couple of local lads trying to set up an on line car mag.

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[Tonylamb]

You may not believe this but my first car was a 1275 GT Clubman, my second car was a de seamed mark 2.

I am way more excited about driving the mini than I am about the Urraco, I love the Urraco but you have to be careful and think about it all the time. The mini is going to be so much fun!!!

[Tonylamb]

Plus the mini would rip the lambo apart down a country lane LOL well frankly what wouldn’t it beat???

I’m thinking I can get the car up and running with the standard set up and then add the electric water pump at a later date giving it some thought.

[nicklouse]

Plus the mini would rip the lambo apart down a country lane LOL well frankly what wouldn’t it beat???

I’m thinking I can get the car up and running with the standard set up and then add the electric water pump at a later date giving it some thought.

best option as space really is the issue with the side mount rad.

 

there are other ways that you could add an electric pump, but not the one on your shelf, as a supplemental pump for use on idle and after shut down. also companied like DSN retro sport do the pump replacement pate with different take offs. straight out and approximately original.

[Tonylamb]

Here’s another good question. I purchased this engine from a guy that makes them up about 18 months ago. Its been sat around waiting to go in the car. Its an A+ engine with fast road cam and roller rockers bored out to 1380. But I don’t know what the final drive is. Reading all these posts about putting later engines in I’m worried that it might have an FD for a car with 12 inch wheels. I’m running 10inch wheels. Presumably that would be fast to about 60mph then a big problem.

How can I tell before I put the engine in what the final drive is. I can’t find the guys details to ask him what FD it had? Is there a simple place to look without dismantaling the whole bottom end or a way of measuring turns of the drive shafts. But then how would I put it in gear. Obviously a good time to do this now before I install the motor?

[robj2502]

Not sure you can accurately find out without having it apart!

 

One thing I will say is that 12inch and 10 inch wheels have very similar diameters once tyres are fitted so I dont think this will have a massive effect on gearing.

 

Also if the gearbox is a later A+ version with standard internals then it is likely to have the 3.1 or 3.4 (both good comprimises). Only the later MPI cars had the 2.7 and some of the smaller bore cars had the 3.9 or 4.1.

 

Some of these links may help:

https://www.calverst...rives-standard/

 

https://www.calverst...io-calculation/

 

http://www.retromini...d=19&chapter=20

[nicklouse]

the diameter difference between 12 and 10 is nothing. BUT if it came out of a non Mini/Metro with 13s then you may find the FD not suitable.

 

oh I hope you did not by the engine off Ebay or Gumtree from a guy in west Yorkshire.

[evoderby]

Cool story on the Lambo....very nice car!!!

[Ethel]

As Nick says all Mini tyres are fairly close for gearing. There are masses of different FD ratios so it's anybody's guess what's in a gearbox that's under a rebuilt and modified engine. You could put in fourth and attempt to work it out by turning the engine with a road wheel.

[Tonylamb]

I did buy the engine from a guy on e bay but I can’t remember where he was? Has there been someone selling dodgy engines? It all looks pretty good?

[Tonylamb]

I did buy the engine of the guy in West Yorkshire, what’s the story?

[nicklouse]

I did buy the engine from a guy on e bay but I can’t remember where he was? Has there been someone selling dodgy engines? It all looks pretty good?

yes there has been/is and your words sound so so familiar. hope it is not.

http://www.theminifo...27&hl=+miniengz

http://www.theminifo...21&hl=+miniengz

http://www.theminifo...27&hl=+miniengz

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[Tonylamb]

Shame I didn’t know this before I purchased the engine. I was in two minds about buying one from the more well known engine builders? Saved myself a grand which I will now spend on having the engine stripped down. At least I will have all the parts. Appreciate the heads up though as I would have put it in the car which would have been a pain when it went wrong.

[Ethel]

Foot note: Genuine engine builders don't usually offer them fully assembled. It's their machining skills most customers want to pay for, so you'd have to pay over the odds for them to spend time spannering, polishing and painting.