261 replies to this topic

[Tonylamb]

They say that trouble comes in threes. Tonight I went to out the rad back in. The dashboard brake fluid light was on. Topped up the master cylinder reserve. The brake pipe below the rad was leaking at the junction with the flexible pipe. Must have wacked it whilst struggling with the rad??? Then I noticed that the newly reversed fan even with the spacer in is going to wack the breather unit?? I reached in to see if the fan could be gently bent out of the way and snap a broken fan blade. Hopefully I can re shape the end of the brake pipe in situe otherwise I'll have to replace the whole length back to the master. I'm wondering if this engine should have a different fan or perhaps I can put some washers in as it's very close.

[nicklouse]

maybe add a second 4.5mm spacer. the original with the breather actually had a 1/2" spacer but then you may have fan rad issues.

[imack]

Until recently I've always had clearance issues using a timing cover breather on a round front mini. I had a non tensioner cover with breather from a sprite/midget. I had to knock a dent in the canister and have an 8-10mm fan spacer. The spacer meant there was inadequate clearance between the fan and rad to change fan belt without rad removal, and I was always concerned that the tube with the k and n filter could come off and go through the fan and rad.
When I last had the engine out I replaced the timing cover with MED's alloy one and made a breather /oil separator, there's now adequate clearance between fan and breather take off, no fan spacer required and I can change a fan belt insitue for the first time in 25 years.

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[johnR]

It appears that some engines do need extra shimming under the fan when using a breather on the timing cover and some don't. My engine originally had two 2mm spacers which I've replaced with a single 4mm Minispares one and it just clears. You could make an extra thin spacer if it's not enough on yours or try a different fan - I think some become twisted/warped.

[Tonylamb]

Thanks for the advice. Tonight i fixed the leaky brake pipe. Even managed to persuade the wife to come out in the shed and do the honours with the brake pedal. Took the headlight out to sort out the sidelight. And then with no water in the engine i decided to test the temp gauge sender. so with a nice cup of hot water to put the sender in and a thermometer. problem is that the gauge reads over 90 when the water is 70 to 75. In fact it seems to read over 90 pretty much all the time. I'm wondering if there are different senders for different gauges, presumably there are. I'll do some research but the sender I have has B710 on one side and 46/1.6 on the other. Any thoughts I thought I would check this out while i'm waiting for the new fan to turn up.

[nicklouse]

sounds like the wrong sender B710 

 

http://diary-of-mgb....ure-sensor.html

 

 

 shows in an MGB but it does depend on what gauge you have fitted.

[Tonylamb]

That would make a lot of sense or the gauge itself needs recallibrating. I brought the sensor in this evening and with the multimetre on 20k ohms it reads as follows.

Chilled water from fridge 1.04
Room temperature 0,59
just about boiling water 0,08

So clearly the resistance is increasing as the temperature goes down. At first the readings seemed to be all over the place. But the sensor is clearly working. The question is is the range of resistance correct and if its correct is it the right range of resistance for the gauge that I'm using.

I can't seem to find anywhere any data on what sensors go with which gauge. Or in fact what the correct resistance measurements are for each sensor gauge combination.

I'll take a look at the MG site you sent.

I've also purchased a new sensor which I think is a different one to the one I have so will check and try that one it was only £4.50

[Tonylamb]

So the new temperature sender came today. I tried it out with the multimeter. at cold and room temperatures the figures are much higher resistance. But with hot water its an almost identical resistance. Took it out to the car and at 75degrees C the gauge is reading about 95. So i'm starting to think that this is an issue with the gauge itself rather than the sender. I do have a modern temperature gauge so I'm thinking of running that in tandem with the dash gauge. Other thing to do is to recalibrate the gauge so that it is actually reading 90 when the sender says 90.

New fan and another 4mm spacer turned up today so I will see if i can get the fan to clear the breather pipe and then not smack the rad. fingers crossed on all this. As its snowing down here I can do a few jobs in the shed without being dragged somewhere else.

[Homersimpson]

It appears that some engines do need extra shimming under the fan when using a breather on the timing cover and some don't. My engine originally had two 2mm spacers which I've replaced with a single 4mm Minispares one and it just clears. You could make an extra thin spacer if it's not enough on yours or try a different fan - I think some become twisted/warped.

When we used to fit Metro engines to minis (back when a whole MOT failed 1275MG Metro was £75) we used to flatten one side of the breather to clear the fan, always worked well and was a nice and simple mod and never seemed to cause and problems doing this.

 

When your talking about a few mm of spacers it only takes a failed water pump for the fan to hit the breather and you might then end up with fan blades through the rad!

[Tonylamb]

eventually I took one of the 4mm spacers and glued some standard washers onto the back of it about 1mm thick. This cleared the breather no problem. When i put the rad back i realised I could probably get two 4mm spacers in. I've just driven it down the road and there are a few problems. One thankfully is not overheating.

My throttle cable sticks a bit which is annoying. Is there only one spring which is the circular one which goes round the part of the carb where the throttle cable attaches? It feels like its not pulling against the cable very much?

I have a lot of understear but assume I need the tracking sorted out. That would make sense.

the worsed issue is the ride, its like driving a 100bhp space hopper. I'm still not happy that the front suspension is right. the hi lo's on the front are set at their lowest setting but the ride height is lower on the rear? I was thinking that the front ball joints haven't settled properly. I also have gas adjustable shocks on the front. The ride I was expecting was hard and flat not bouncy. Any thoughts appreciated. I did think that the front right wheel seemed to have slightly odd geometry. That may be due to tracking. But it seems to point inwards at the bottom.

[Tonylamb]

by the way I have red spot suspension cones on the front.

[johnR]

Having different cones, different shox and different ride heights front to back could all contribute to your handling issues, as would your tracking being out. Also check tyre pressures are correct. I would take it to a garage to get the tracking sorted then you can tick that off, most cars are fractionally higher at the back - it looks better that way too (in my opinion).

[Tonylamb]

Thanks mate, I did look back at a previous post you were involved in which was an interesting read. I think I made some assumptions that create issuues. I wanted a harder firmer and lower suspension for my 10inch wheels mini. I replaced the front cones with red spot ones thinking that would make it harder and therefore more grippy for my more powerful engine. I also fitted KYB gas shocks with much the same thought in mind.

Agreed I really do need to get the tracking sorted out then I can tick that off. bad tracking does produce all kinds of wierd and wonderful feelings in the steering and suspension. You are also right that I do need to put the KYB's on the back. Presumably the softer shocks on the back will make the rear bounce. It does feel at the moment that the front is doing the bouncing. Or that's what it feels like.

So now some technical questions. Is it true that the red spot cone springs are taller than the standard ones? Also if the rate is softer to start with then harder towards the end. Would that make the suspension more bouncy, we are talking road use here. A taller cone would make the front higher. Also would lowering the high low in order to get low ride height actually make the suspension feel harder/bouncier??? Should I raise the high low on the front?

Does the harder cone and shock actually have the effect of making the suspension more bouncy. I'm actually thinking that my thoughts about making the car handle better. Which maybe involved using track type ideas have actually made things much worse. I wonder if you and cooperman could point me in the right direction.

Ultimately I would like good road handling with good control. But I don't want something that is super hard and uncomfortable. I'd like a low look but again maybe the two things aren't compatible.

[nicklouse]

first the Red Dots

Genuine Mini Spares product ideal for road use for maximum performance, where other examples available tail off as they get worked and heat up. Hilos will be required to enable fitment as they are taller but this competition rated rubber spring is for use on all Road/ Rally Minis giving a supple smoother compliant ride.

For race use see [linkc-STR688[/link] with yellow spot marking.

All Priced individually but must be fitted in axle pairs and usually fitted on the front only for normal road use although many customers now fit them all round.

Marked with a red spot on the metal base for identification.

The thick top plate has an internal metric thread for strength, rather than a nut welded in place as per the original standard cone springs(A MiniSpares design now copied by many).

These uprated springs do not feel much harder or give a harsher ride, but were specially developed specifically to give a more compliant and supple performance by way of careful re-arrangement of the spring rate. Basically, less body roll with a better working rubber cone that does not tail off as quick in spring rate under use . You will need hilos with these as they sit higher and although settle a little, adjustable suspension will be required. Beware of copies on the market as they do not perform the same and not manufactured in the same way.

These are manufactured by a company who are involved in Formula 1 and high profile motorsports rubber parts. Under use they get hot and ours retain more consistency than any other on the market as they are specially moulded.

Keith Dodd fitted 2 on the front of his twin point car without any sagging or deterioration to date covering over 10 thousand hard road miles using KYB Gas-adjust and AGX fully adjustables which gave the best comfortable rides of anything tested.

If using these on 10" wheels with Hilos you may have to cut 3/4" off the end of the centre threaded bolt of the old type Hilo with a circlip as it will bottom out on the cone spring face and the car will sit high, for extremely lowered cars the hilo face will also need machining a few mm.

Like all rubber products they only have a certain shelf life and being fitted equates to the same.

making suspension "harder" does not make for better handling or grip it just makes things worse. as you are making it harder for the wheels to stay in contact with the road surface .

you have "HiLos" fitted these can also make the handling worse when fitted by someone who is not aware of the finer details. most people fit them and then measure the ride height to make sure that the car is the same height left and right which is a good start but can leave you with a car handling like a ....... while the height may look right the pressure exerted on the ground by the wheels can be way off giving a car that can have way less grip on one side which leaves the car ducking and diving left and right as you try and drive in a straight line. (some people confuse this with "Torque steer" then if you have adjustable tie bars and bottom arms you need to be aware of "set back" the distance between the wheel centers you can have your tracking set  but you may have one wheel infront of the other as the caster is out or other issues. so when you get the "tracking" done there are other things that need looking at the same time/first.

 

low ride height means less suspension movement as there is no room for the wheel to move. comfort means having the suspension moving to absorb the road defects.

 

Race tracks are smooth.

[Tonylamb]

Well that all makes perfect sense. Of course tuning suspension is like tuning an engine. Its complicated, in fact I would probably say tuning suspension up to a point is much harder as there are many more variables.

So understanding this is a "how long is a piece of string" type question.

If you wanted great handling for road use, as Sussex and Kent are now third world when it comes to road conditions LOL, where would you start.

standard ride height, standard cones? Shall I keep the KYB gas shocks? I'm wondering what a good starting place is, outside of getting the tracking set. And how do you adjust the caster on a mini?

Your dead right by the way with the race tracks are smooth comment