27 replies to this topic

[CityEPete]

You are using a Thermostat Blanking Sleeve  (11G167) if you are running without a thermostat ?  Hopefully 

Nope, the cars run perfectly fine without them, two cars done a 500 mile weekend trip with no overheating issues

No ones suggesting they'll overheat, it's the extra time taken to warm up that's slowly damaging your engine.

Why don't you have a stat?

[cal844]

My cars(and countless other minis, ministox included) run perfectly well in the middle of summer, with no overheating issues(on my cars the guage was high, a full flush and removed the thermostat, they've been fine, two of them done a 500 mile weekend trip never missed a beat!) they take slightly longer to warm up with no thermostat but as I say there are no issues.

The extra time to warm the car doesn't do damage, the car on my avatar has been running with no thermostat since 2014( radiator cap failed so we removed the stat and replaced the cap, they've never missed a beat since.)

Edited by cal844, 02 March 2018 - 09:31 PM.

[CityEPete]

That's just bodging.

[Dusky]

My cars(and countless other minis, ministox included) run perfectly well in the middle of summer, with no overheating issues(on my cars the guage was high, a full flush and removed the thermostat, they've been fine, two of them done a 500 mile weekend trip never missed a beat!) they take slightly longer to warm up with no thermostat but as I say there are no issues.

The extra time to warm the car doesn't do damage, the car on my avatar has been running with no thermostat since 2014( radiator cap failed so we removed the stat and replaced the cap, they've never missed a beat since.)

My tuned road minis ( had a 998 making a whopping 82 bhp, and a 1330 making 93) run cool with an 88° thermostat.
My 1330 race car, 120 front wheel hp ( that's what, 130 engine hp?) runs a 82° thermostat. No overheating. Not even on slow autotest tracks.
If you don't see heavy temp fluctuations without the thermostat I'd be looking at a gauge replacement.

'The extra time to warm the car doesn't do damage' is a WRONG statement. Everyone who has the slightest clue about engine wear studies will tell you this. If we could start a car and never shut them down ( eg. retaining operating temp) we would see almost 0 wear. Why you remove the thermostat when you have a failed rad cap is beyond my knowledge. I know you think of your dad as a God who knows everything, but professional technicians all around the world DISAGREE. Ain't no car manifacturer spending more than they have to. And a thermostat+gasket+location for the thermostat + having someone install it and creating more failure paths costs them loads! 


Don't take it too personally, but I absolutely HATE it when people talk about bodges they've done and say ' Uh well, I never had problems'. I've crossed a highway with my eyes closed too, had no problems.Might be worth reading the headline above this page too.
"Please be careful when answering peoples technical questions that you do not misguide them into taking inappropriate action. Not only is this annoying, but it can also be costly and could even be dangerous if the wrong information is given."

[Spider]

The Thermostat not only get's the engine (including the Oil) up to the right temp, but also provides temperature stability.

[Sprocket]

'The extra time to warm the car doesn't do damage' is a WRONG statement. Everyone who has the slightest clue about engine wear studies will tell you this. If we could start a car and never shut them down ( eg. retaining operating temp) we would see almost 0 wear. Why you remove the thermostat when you have a failed rad cap is beyond my knowledge. I know you think of your dad as a God who knows everything, but professional technicians all around the world DISAGREE. Ain't no car manifacturer spending more than they have to. And a thermostat+gasket+location for the thermostat + having someone install it and creating more failure paths costs them loads! 

Nice little graph that supports that

Edited by Sprocket, 03 March 2018 - 09:56 AM.

[cal844]

My point is, ministox engines(998) don't use thermostats or blanking plates, they get revved high on most weekends, with no overheating issues, even on standard radiators, as for those who say that engine wear is done when cold, yes it does happen however my cars are hardly ever run at idle(or excessive revs) to heat up anyway.

Edited by cal844, 03 March 2018 - 12:02 PM.

[CityEPete]

The stat is there to MAINTAIN the CORRECT temperature, there's no debate to be had, I've no idea about ministox but I know they don't sit in traffic on cold days where the engine over cools without the stat to close off the circuit.

Ruin your engines by all means but stop telling others to ruin there's.

[Dusky]

My point is, ministox engines(998) don't use thermostats or blanking plates, they get revved high on most weekends, with no overheating issues, even on standard radiators, as for those who say that engine wear is done when cold, yes it does happen however my cars are hardly ever run at idle(or excessive revs) to heat up anyway.

And ministox are comparable to road cars in what aspect exactly? 
F1 cars don't even have a starter. Maybe we should start ommiting that too.

Funny how a low budget racing class( or maybe just one person......) doesn't use the thermostat, yet all the miglia's run atleast a blanking sleeve.

Again, if you have a magic trick to make your engines warm up faster with less wear WITHOUT a thermostat, please come and see my company. We'll happily pay you.

[cal844]

My point is, ministox engines(998) don't use thermostats or blanking plates, they get revved high on most weekends, with no overheating issues, even on standard radiators, as for those who say that engine wear is done when cold, yes it does happen however my cars are hardly ever run at idle(or excessive revs) to heat up anyway.

And ministox are comparable to road cars in what aspect exactly? 
F1 cars don't even have a starter. Maybe we should start ommiting that too.
Funny how a low budget racing class( or maybe just one person......) doesn't use the thermostat, yet all the miglia's run atleast a blanking sleeve.

Again, if you have a magic trick to make your engines warm up faster with less wear WITHOUT a thermostat, please come and see my company. We'll happily pay you.

IME (and a few other local mini owners) the thermostat causes restrictions (heat) in a higher mileage car. Two of the vehicles in Question have had new 'super cool' radiators, with new water pumps. Both do overheat with a thermostat or a blanking sleeve fitted, hence why I don't run them. I use the heater matrix if they get hot)

works for me so I will continue to do so.

For the record removing thermostats won't cause excessive damage within 50,000 miles, which by the way has been done on an engine listed above.


I do seek professional mechanical advice where required. In this case I'm covered

[Dusky]

Lets play a fun game.
How does a cooling system work? How does heat transfer work? Hint : surface are and time are 2 factors. Please tell me more about the 'restriction' a thermostat would cause...
I thought ministox ran standard rads... Why would you need those super rads on the road then...
Ill give another hint, coolant temp through the block and the single point temp your sensor measures are 2 different things.
50 000 miles, If you can back that up with a proper wear test ill PayPal you 2 Grand.
I cant keep giving you job offers, but if someone else can do better please do not hesitate to contact me.

[Sprocket]

 

 

My point is, ministox engines(998) don't use thermostats or blanking plates, they get revved high on most weekends, with no overheating issues, even on standard radiators, as for those who say that engine wear is done when cold, yes it does happen however my cars are hardly ever run at idle(or excessive revs) to heat up anyway.

And ministox are comparable to road cars in what aspect exactly? 
F1 cars don't even have a starter. Maybe we should start ommiting that too.
Funny how a low budget racing class( or maybe just one person......) doesn't use the thermostat, yet all the miglia's run atleast a blanking sleeve.

Again, if you have a magic trick to make your engines warm up faster with less wear WITHOUT a thermostat, please come and see my company. We'll happily pay you.

IME (and a few other local mini owners) the thermostat causes restrictions (heat) in a higher mileage car. Two of the vehicles in Question have had new 'super cool' radiators, with new water pumps. Both do overheat with a thermostat or a blanking sleeve fitted, hence why I don't run them. I use the heater matrix if they get hot)

works for me so I will continue to do so.

For the record removing thermostats won't cause excessive damage within 50,000 miles, which by the way has been done on an engine listed above.


I do seek professional mechanical advice where required. In this case I'm covered

 

 

Hmm.

This is a far more complex subject than I think you or your professional mechanical advisor understand.

Its funny how I run a 200hp 1293cc engine with an 88c thermostat and 2 core super cool rad, and don't experience overheats, sort of blows your theories out of the water.

 

[attachment=193966:DSC00494.JPG]

[CityEPete]

My point is, ministox engines(998) don't use thermostats or blanking plates, they get revved high on most weekends, with no overheating issues, even on standard radiators, as for those who say that engine wear is done when cold, yes it does happen however my cars are hardly ever run at idle(or excessive revs) to heat up anyway.

And ministox are comparable to road cars in what aspect exactly? 
F1 cars don't even have a starter. Maybe we should start ommiting that too.
Funny how a low budget racing class( or maybe just one person......) doesn't use the thermostat, yet all the miglia's run atleast a blanking sleeve.

Again, if you have a magic trick to make your engines warm up faster with less wear WITHOUT a thermostat, please come and see my company. We'll happily pay you.

IME (and a few other local mini owners) the thermostat causes restrictions (heat) in a higher mileage car. Two of the vehicles in Question have had new 'super cool' radiators, with new water pumps. Both do overheat with a thermostat or a blanking sleeve fitted, hence why I don't run them. I use the heater matrix if they get hot)

works for me so I will continue to do so.

For the record removing thermostats won't cause excessive damage within 50,000 miles, which by the way has been done on an engine listed above.


I do seek professional mechanical advice where required. In this case I'm covered

I think you need to start seeking it from some where else.