18 replies to this topic

[tiger99]

Just spotted in "Classic Car Weekly" (which I have never looked at before, but it came free with Practical Classics) that DVSA have finally woken up and noticed that many people are flouting the law by fitting HID lights to vehicles for which they are not type approved. It was inevitable that this was coming. The date is 20th May. For those who don't need an MOT due to age, consider that prosecution and points on the licence is worse than a failed MOT, and they are already illegal on the road. Funnily enough, the DVSA advice, once again, is not in agreement with their own rules, and they seem to be suggesting that you can bolt in complete headlights with wash/wipe and self-levelling, just not change bulbs to HID, although that is disallowed as the headlights are only type approved as part of an actual vehicle. But that may just be journalistic mis-interpretation of what DVSA actually said.

 

Sadly at least one classic-friendly MOT tester fails to understand the problem. I would have expected better.

 

Coincidentally I heard elsewhere, including the BBC News web site, that the United Nations (who actually set lighting regulations, surprisingly) are looking at HID and other modern headlights, as there have been very many cases of dazzle, leading to accidents. So possibly in the next couple of years, the regulations may change again.

 

I would suggest that it would be prudent to wait a while to see what finally happens before thinking about changing headlights, except for the likes of the well-known and fully legal Cibie or Wipac upgrades.

 

Frankly I am sick of being dazzled in my daily driver, which is not as low as a Mini, by vehicles, mainly of German origin, with HID lights. I hope that they all need a horrendously expensive (to the manufacturer) recall to fix the lights once the UN decide what to do.

[Mat]

Hids only dazzle if they've been fitted to a car without projector lenses- the beam pattern is wrong. If projector lenses are fitted, they're no different to factory xenons. I think the main culprit of dazzling are the led lights, as you say most common on certain European makes of car. Shame really, I put hids on my daily driver as the halogens were awful- they were so much better!

[carbon]

Seems that headlight dazzle is an increasing road safety issue, as highlighted in this recent RAC report out yesterday: https://www.rac.co.u...dlights-2458363

 

Bright new headlights are causing increased risk on the roads (24^th March 2018)

The headlights of some newer cars are so bright they are causing a road safety hazard for drivers with as many as two-thirds (65%) of motorists saying they regularly get dazzled by oncoming headlights even though they are dipped.

Fifteen per cent of motorists surveyed by the RAC claim they have suffered a near-miss as a result of being dazzled by modern headlights that they believe are too bright. While it is well known that older drivers often have difficulty when driving at night due to glare from headlights, the RAC findings about the dazzling effect of some new car headlights were similar among drivers of all ages.

Of those who claimed to regularly get dazzled by oncoming dipped headlights, the majority felt it takes up to five seconds before they can see clearly again. One in 10 (10%), however, say it takes from as long as 10 seconds before their vision is back to normal. Only 16% said it takes less than a second to recover.

A driver recovering from being dazzled by headlights for five seconds while driving at 60mph would cover a distance of 134m which is more than the length of a football pitch (UK football pitch maximum length: 120m). Some 15 per cent of the 2,061 motorists polled have nearly suffered a collision as a result of being dazzled by modern headlights they believe are too bright.

Only one in 10 drivers (12%) think the brightness of headlights on most newer cars is about right. Two-thirds (66%) believe some are too bright and a fifth (22%) claim most are too bright.

Among those who think modern car headlights are too bright, half (49%) claim they even get dazzled by headlights in their rear view mirror. This has led to 62% constantly having to click their mirrors up and down to avoid being dazzled, 21% relying on their wing mirrors more and 16% not using their rear view mirrors as much as they would otherwise have done.

Due to brightness of some modern-day headlights a worrying two-thirds of motorists (66%) say they now struggle to tell if oncoming lights are on full or dipped beam. In a situation after dark at a T-junction when waiting to pull out, 68% admitted to finding it difficult to tell whether or not some approaching vehicles had their indicators on due to the brightness of the headlights.

RAC road safety spokesman Pete Williams said "The intensity and brightness of some new car headlights is clearly causing difficulty for other road users"

[Ethel]

Amazing it's taken so long when there were limitations on wattage way back in the day when it related to brightness.

 

Surely projector beams can be at least as bad because roads aren't all flat and level.

[Alan Orr]

I remember as part of my driving lessons and my advanced driver courses over the years, never to look at the oncoming traffic head lights. Look to the near side of the road and a low that to guide you along the road.

The reason we have that lever on the rear view mirrror is to cancel out the dazzle effect from cars behind. Think the majority of all modern cars have this as an outing feature, some even dim the door mirrors too.

I have just purchased in the last 3 weeks a new car, Audi A6 Avant. Part of the build spec was LED head lights. The driver assist pack that I had on my build spec cancels out the main beam if left on and in dipped mode cancels out the LEDs that would dazzle oncoming traffic.

Fog lights on for weeks after last fog is my big bear, big time, especially in the drizzle rain.

[SolarB]

Headlight brightness seems to have become a bit of an arms war in the last few years with manufacturers competing to out do each other. Once someone ups the anti others follow, the dazzled driver now needs brighter lights to be able to see ahead after passing a car with bright lights coming the other way. Provided we all had the same level of (relatively) dim headlights a few years ago this wasn't a problem.

[Ethel]

I've noticed more and more drivers using full beam in built up areas with street lights, the law allows you to use sidelights in those conditions.

 

I've had a few near misses cycling, and should be paid out any day now for one that didn't miss. One offered as an excuse (for pulling out of a side road and forcing me over to the opposite kerb to avoid being hit)  that he looked but didn't see any headlights - one reason why I use sidelights while driving. Though some cyclists are the worst offenders with ultra bright led spots aimed straight ahead. 

[Mini Manannán]

HID/ LED /Projector I hate them all.  It's not so much the cars behind it's the oncoming bouncing around and blinding.  Then there's an old Landrover over here that obviously has cheap LED replacement headlights (he's got the full work of LED indicators/ brakes light/parking lights, he must be pleased as punch with it), they just scatter the ridiculously bright light all over.

 

  I'm pleased to see that RAC report, perhaps something will be done to rein them in.

[Mini Manannán]

 Though some cyclists are the worst offenders with ultra bright led spots aimed straight ahead. 

 

The other one that boils my ****, the Mark Cavendish effect where you meet 30 cyclists in a pack at night all trying to outdo each other's lights

[THE ANORAK]

Ethel is right about the bike lights. when i used to commute by cycle my light was a lot brighter than the headlight on my motor bike. cyclists need to realise that they can dazzle as much as cars.

 

as for these modern car head lights, yes they are too bright. has no one heard of night vision??. you need to be able to see but you don't need to try and re-create daylight. very dangerous and does need looking at.

Edited by THE ANORAK, 26 March 2018 - 04:37 PM.

[carbon]

+1 for Ethel's comment about badly designed or adjusted bike lights. There's a cycle path I cycle along regularly at night and several times have had to slow down because of oncoming bike with a floodlight attached to their handlebars.

 

I'm all in favour of good cycle lights, but like SolarB mentions this appears to have become an arms race.

 

Self-levelling bike lights anyone?

[Ethel]

It would be ok if they just aimed them better, how far ahead do you need to see on a pushbike?

[robminibcy]

I've noticed more and more drivers using full beam in built up areas with street lights, the law allows you to use sidelights in those conditions.

 

I've had a few near misses cycling, and should be paid out any day now for one that didn't miss. One offered as an excuse (for pulling out of a side road and forcing me over to the opposite kerb to avoid being hit)  that he looked but didn't see any headlights - one reason why I use sidelights while driving. Though some cyclists are the worst offenders with ultra bright led spots aimed straight ahead. 

i must be honest and say regardless of what the law says i really don't think it's a good idea to just use sidelights in built up areas. People nataurally look for light when looking to pull out and if someone half asleep (as we all are at times) it would be very easy to miss a car with just sides on especially if it happened to be caught in a shadow at the time. Less some lights are too bright but often its more a case of being seen than seeing yourself. (same as using dipped beam in rain but not fogs!!!)

[mk1coopers]

Tend to leave the high beam assist on in my modern, you can see it tracking the car infront and putting it in a dark 'box' as everything moves around, seems to work very well. What gets me is poorly adjusted lights and peoples inability to fit bulbs correctly as both cause far more dazzle than factory LED's with correct adjustment.

Don't get me started on rear fog lights in the rain when you can see a mile down the road, you aren't driving an F1 car, even in the fog you are supposed to turn them off when someone is behind you, putting a set of lights on that are brighter than your brake lights then leaving them on isn't the best idea

Edited by mk1coopers, 26 March 2018 - 08:47 PM.

[SolarB]

I cycle off road and need a reasonable light for this. The problem with bike lights is that they all seem to throw a simple circular beam pattern. There's no horizontal cut off that car headlights have. When on the road I have to aim my light down about to about 3 foot in front of me before the beam cut off is no longer at driver eye level.