11 replies to this topic

[.998TANGO.]

Hi all

Got a horrible whining on my mini Im restoring. Think I know the answer sounds like the idler is about to give up The ghost. Any other thoughts? Noise goes when clutch depressed

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=u2mzFeQKEFo

Edited by .998TANGO., 24 March 2018 - 08:09 PM.

[Spider]

It doesn't sound like an idler bearing to me.

 

It sound more like something more external rubbing, that move away from from this position when the clutch is depressed. I don't think it's a bolt rubbing on the diaphragm as that's more of a tick or knock type sound.

 

It could even be a clutch thrust bearing on the way out (yes, they often make noise when loaded, not unloaded, but not always). Back the adjustment for the clutch right off and push the arm towards the engine to get the bearing well clear.

 

How's the end float on the crankshaft?

[Retroman]

Idler gears don't give up...they can cut into the casing thrust face.

  It tends to be more the 1st motion shaft the whines, as it sits in the big bearing, has a pilot bearing on the nose and the mainshaft end bearing inside, with the input gear (bottom drop gear) on the outside and 4th on the inside.

   As the bearings wear it starts to misalign the input gear and idler on the outside and on the inside end 4th gear which is in constant mesh with the bigger 4th on the laygear, hence the whine.

   The whole power and drive of the car has to go through....primary, idler, 1st motion, then laygear then 1st 2nd 3rd and then the diff pinion/ crown wheel.

   In 4th gear its a direct top so the drive all goes through the mainshaft by engaging 4th directly onto the 1st motion shaft end. This makes the drive a straight line from the input gear to the diff pinion.

With less side-loads and gears under power, this makes the whine less in top gear and more noticeable in lower gears.

 

Anyone notice the difference between an A series and A plus whine ?

[.998TANGO.]

Yeah dont think It would be a bolt rubbing. Will be getting a release bearing anyway as I now have the engine back out and cover off. Nothing obvious looking no metal filings or anything. Clutch arm had some free play when the clutch was up



Not measured the endfloat, will get the clutch and flywheel off tomorrow to see if there's anything obvious.

Edited by .998TANGO., 24 March 2018 - 09:26 PM.

[.998TANGO.]

No further forward today, engine run with no clutch bearing and gear linkage disconnected as it has a cheap quick shift which is utter *@@* so thought it may be slightly trying to engage a gear but sadly no change

Not looking good!

[.998TANGO.]

Clutch taken apart today still no sign of anything obvious, all looked how it should.

 

So decided to take the cover off to see whats going on behind there, again nothing jumped out of me no nasty wear in the cover and all gears and bearings look in good shape no grinding or anything.

 

things got a little more interesting when i took the primary gear off, the rear bush looks to have seen better days and it very easy to take it out and all around it and on the crank was thick old greasy oil and with the bearing removed the gear has an almost mirror shine in some places Could this be the cause of the noise? bearing spinning inside the primary gear? i'm still not sure

 

another video

 

 

Edited by .998TANGO., 30 March 2018 - 05:44 PM.

[Dusky]

Someone might have fitted one of those floating bushes. ALthough I don't think those are normally cut in the middle..?
Someone else will confirm.

[Spider]

There's nothing there that pokes me in the eye at all.

 

The Front Bush that looks split - that's how the original bushes are on this end. They are steel backed and rolled in to what you have.

 

Again, listening to in in the new video, it just doesn't sound gear related to me.

 

Have you checked the end float on the crank?

 

There does look to be something odd though with the gear teeth on the Primary Gear, can we get a better look at it?  Might be nothing too, just can't see at these angles.

[nicklouse]

i would say release bearing as the Verto runs in permanent contact.

[.998TANGO.]

There's nothing there that pokes me in the eye at all.
 
The Front Bush that looks split - that's how the original bushes are on this end. They are steel backed and rolled in to what you have.
 
Again, listening to in in the new video, it just doesn't sound gear related to me.
 
Have you checked the end float on the crank?
 
There does look to be something odd though with the gear teeth on the Primary Gear, can we get a better look at it?  Might be nothing too, just can't see at these angles.

Well good to know it all looks normal confirms my thoughts. Nothing looked abnormal on the gear will have a closer look when Im next up there.

End float is a little on the large side! About 11/12 thou not ideal on 54k engine 🙄 so that will have to be addressed.

Will be fitting a new release bearing when I eventually put it back together

Thanks for the input guys!

[Retroman]

mmmm as spider says there could be something primary gear teeth related...

 

Did you measure the end float on the primary gear or crank...?

 

And did you spin the thrust bearing and listen to it ?

 

I also wonder about the 1st motion shaft / pilot bearing....looks like something has been rubbing the casing, might just be the light.

 

How much play is there in that input gear / 1st motion bearing ?

[.998TANGO.]

mmmm as spider says there could be something primary gear teeth related...
 
Did you measure the end float on the primary gear or crank...?
 
And did you spin the thrust bearing and listen to it ?
 
I also wonder about the 1st motion shaft / pilot bearing....looks like something has been rubbing the casing, might just be the light.
 
How much play is there in that input gear / 1st motion bearing ?

Yeah will double check it. Measured on the end of the crank with a dial gauge.

Not spun at any great speed but by hand doesnt feel knotchy at all.

There are some slight marks on the input gear part of the case again will have to look into it a little more.