Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Swapping Front Drums For Discs

brakes suspension

  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1 Tonylamb

Tonylamb

    Speeding Along Now

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 358 posts
  • Location: Ticehurst East Sussex

Posted 17 April 2018 - 09:53 PM

Im sure this topic is somewhere in here so I apologise if this questions has already been dealt with. Ive just purchased the full 7.5inch front disc set up from minispares with new parts throughout to replace the old drums (actually they were new as well courtesy of the previous owner if anyone wants a set). Everything has gone well Im Just at the stage of thinking about torquing up the castle nut. I dont have the engine in so Ive used a bar to stop the disc turning. Ive done it up pretty tight but not yet to the 188 - 200 ftlbs suggested (castle nut with one split pin hole). My question is how tight should the whole thing be? I can turn it but it doesnt spin freely. I dont have the spacers between the inside bearing and the oil seal. So I dont know how deep this oil seal with the plastic protector should go into the hub. It seems to make sense that it might be reasonably hard to turn with new seals etc. But I havent fully torqued it yet and it seems pretty tight. Im wondering if the oil seal isnt far enough into the hub on the inside. Any thoughts appreciated. Otherwise this has been a pretty pleasant job filling some calm evening hours while the wife watches Ant and Dec, sorry just Dec.

Attached Files



#2 Tonylamb

Tonylamb

    Speeding Along Now

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 358 posts
  • Location: Ticehurst East Sussex

Posted 17 April 2018 - 10:05 PM

This is a picture of the inner oil seal. The white plastic ring that goes on the outside of it is totally tight on the UJ which I assume its supposed to be to start with. Maybe they just need to be run to loosen up a bit. Theres plenty of grease in there as well. As I said the one Ive put on the car does turn its just not freewheeling it needs effort to turn.

#3 Tonylamb

Tonylamb

    Speeding Along Now

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 358 posts
  • Location: Ticehurst East Sussex

Posted 17 April 2018 - 10:07 PM

This is the white ring that is now on the UJ

Attached Files



#4 nicklouse

nicklouse

    Moved Into The Garage

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,899 posts
  • Location: Not Yorkshire
  • Local Club: Anonyme Miniholiker

Posted 17 April 2018 - 11:15 PM

the spacer was deleted anyway so dont worry about it.

 

leave final torquing till it is on the ground way easier.



#5 KTS

KTS

    Up Into Fourth

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,227 posts
  • Location: Herts

Posted 18 April 2018 - 07:04 AM

the distance between the face of the bearing to the outer face of the bearing seal should be no larger than the width of the machined face on the UJ the bearing seal runs against

 

i'm pretty sure the bearing seal recess is machined with a step at the bottom to prevent it being driven in too far - could be wrong though

 

hope this makes sense

 

..as nicklouse, advises, torgue up once everything is rebuilt, brakes have been been bled and car's back on the ground - an assistant with their foot on the brake will stop anything moving so you can torque it up properly/easily.. just don't forget to do it!! (put a post-it note on the inside of the windscreen to remind you)


Edited by KTS, 18 April 2018 - 07:11 AM.


#6 Tonylamb

Tonylamb

    Speeding Along Now

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 358 posts
  • Location: Ticehurst East Sussex

Posted 18 April 2018 - 12:57 PM

Thanks for the replies I’m not worried about the torquing process. I’m hunting for a proper sized washer to do it the right way. I also figured that its easier to do it with the car on the ground and using the brakes. My big concern was how easy the wheel should turn. You can’t spin it freely? The only thing that can be stopping it turning are the oil seals if they are not deep enough in the recess but I assume they will be fairly tight to start with. I can turn it one handed without the wheel on it. As you can see the water shield is on the UJ and is tight on it but its in the right place? The seal on the front buts up against the bearing but the one at the back where the spacer is could go deeper into the hole but does seem about right. The bearing themselves are right because they can’t go in any other way.

#7 Rorf

Rorf

    One Carb Or Two?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 857 posts
  • Location: Cape Town

Posted 18 April 2018 - 01:15 PM

What wheel bearings are you using - Timkens tapered?

 

You can knock the inner oil seal in a bit more. I assume the hub is also new. 

 

When tightened up you will know if the bearings are binding which they shouldn't if of good quality and come as a full bearing kit for a mini, not as individual inner and outer bearings supplied in separate packaging.



#8 FlyingScot

FlyingScot

    Up Into Fourth

  • TMF Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,660 posts
  • Location: Inverclyde Scotland
  • Local Club: Mini Cooper Register

Posted 18 April 2018 - 01:39 PM

Minispares sell the proper washer, the size is also in Haynes manual. The tightening with the washer puts everything in the right place.
Done a couple of these and when all’s done worked out okay.
Bearings are minispares own with the whole kit but again not found any issue with these as they are a matched set in the boxes.

FS

#9 Tonylamb

Tonylamb

    Speeding Along Now

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 358 posts
  • Location: Ticehurst East Sussex

Posted 18 April 2018 - 07:58 PM

I’m not sure what make the bearings are they came in the kit from minispares. They are roller bearings. I think the UJ is just catching on the new oil seals they will probably loosen up. Unfortunately mini spares are out of the washers. But I found an old flat nut that fits which should do the job. I need to wait until I can put the car back on the ground to tighten everything up.

#10 KTS

KTS

    Up Into Fourth

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,227 posts
  • Location: Herts

Posted 18 April 2018 - 08:28 PM

if it was me, i'd make sure the seal is driven fully home into the hub.  

 

the only bit of the UJ that should be in contact with the bearing seal is the machined surface the seal runs against - if the UJ (or plastic spacer) is binding against the body of the seal without being torqued up, it's likely to bind more after it is torqued up, and it won't last long like that.  My feeling is that with a failed seal there's in an increased likelihood of premature bearing failure due to loss of lubricant and/or ingress of foreign material



#11 Rorf

Rorf

    One Carb Or Two?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 857 posts
  • Location: Cape Town

Posted 19 April 2018 - 01:42 PM

It is a CV joint, not a UJ - much older minis, usually Coopers had UJs attached the the differential side of the half shafts :proud:  



#12 Tonylamb

Tonylamb

    Speeding Along Now

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 358 posts
  • Location: Ticehurst East Sussex

Posted 20 April 2018 - 08:18 PM

Yes of course its a CV joint.

I think I will drive that inner oil seal in a bit further as KTS suggests. The plastic shield is in the right place but surely it should go round and round with the the CV joint but should be stationary with the oil seal. Its tight on the outside of the CV joint as you can see from the pictures.

#13 Rorf

Rorf

    One Carb Or Two?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 857 posts
  • Location: Cape Town

Posted 21 April 2018 - 08:08 AM

Lets get everyone onto the same picture :proud:

 

If you have the latest tapered roller bearings then you might not have the old spacer No.11

Attached Files


Edited by Rorf, 21 April 2018 - 08:10 AM.


#14 Tonylamb

Tonylamb

    Speeding Along Now

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 358 posts
  • Location: Ticehurst East Sussex

Posted 21 April 2018 - 01:44 PM

Not a bad plan and that is the correct picture. Looking at that the gap between the inner bearing and the oil seal where the spacer goes, I don’t have the spacer, is probably smaller than I thought. My surprise is that the the white water shield is so tight on the CV joint. but it looks like from this that it shouldn’t actually touch the inner seal it should have a six mm gap between the water shield and the seal. I’m going to place the shield on the CV joint before putting it in place so that gap is there.

#15 Rorf

Rorf

    One Carb Or Two?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 857 posts
  • Location: Cape Town

Posted 21 April 2018 - 02:27 PM

Spacer No 8 was eliminated many years ago from the mini so do not worry about it. The 6 mm is the distance from the white water deflector to the position where the CV touches the bearing inner race.

 

You need to hammer the inner seal further in towards the bearing.

 

Many people do not even bother putting the water deflector in either.


Edited by Rorf, 21 April 2018 - 02:29 PM.






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: brakes, suspension

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users