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Please Put My Mind At Rest Re. Flywheel 180° Out.


Best Answer Wiggy , 02 May 2018 - 04:30 PM

She runs!!! It was blocked injectors! I'm over the moon! Thank you so much for the help.

 

 

I had an mpi in recently for non starting, got fuel to the rail but not out of the injectors diagnostics shown a pulse signal from ecu to the injectors, tested them and they where clicking but no amount of cleaning would get them to perform put two working used injectors in and she fired up immediately

 

My injectors were the same. Just clicking, no flow at all. The Redex didn't do much; so I got a small syringe of Unleaded, stuck it in the top, and squeezed the plunger moderately hard. Then the missus pulsed the injectors a few times with some wire and a car battery. After a few tries they squirted like a good'un!

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#31 Wiggy

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:59 PM

Thought I'd investigate before taking things apart.

Pulled a plug and I have a nice fat spark. Which is good. Plug seemed bone dry though. Fuel is getting to the fuel rail under pressure. Fuel pump primes ok.

I'll test the injectors tomorrow.

Thinking about it, the fuel must be bloody ancient! That won't be helping.

Edited by Wiggy, 25 April 2018 - 09:17 PM.


#32 Sprocket

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 10:31 AM

having not read the whole topic before replying, lol i might miss stuff but here goes anyway.

 

Remove the starter motor, remove the crankshaft position sensor and position the engine at Top Dead Centre. With a fat marker pen, make a mark on the flywheel through the crank position sensor hole. Now rotate the engine clockwise so you can see the marks through the starter motor aperture. The mark should be around the second or third tooth before the missing tooth. If you suspect it might be 180 degrees out, you need to check that the mark you made is near the two missing teeth separated by only two teeth. See Picture. If you have three teeth between the two gaps, the flywheel is somehow fitted 180 degrees out of position. If you use the wrong clutch, it's normally 30 degrees out and the result is the mark you'd make on the flywheel as described above would be in the first missing tooth. Again see picture.

 

Attached File  IMG_2375.JPG   79.93K   8 downloads


Edited by Sprocket, 26 April 2018 - 11:52 AM.


#33 Wiggy

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 11:26 AM

That's amazing info, Sprocket. Thanks very much!



#34 johnR

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 04:19 PM

Think I missed the point about it being MPi/Spi and was concentrating on the fit of the bolt and locktab!



#35 MiniAida

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 11:06 AM

I think the clue here is the "after years of it being in pieces".

 

I'm not sure it's possible to fit the flywheel 180 degrees out, as the slot is offset to one side. As Sprocket says, using the wrong clutch (diaphragm) will put the timing out, but it looks like you've fitted the original, so I'd look elsewhere personally. I've not done mine for a while, but I'm sure there's pegs on the diaphragm to flywheel bolting points to ensure it's the right way round (?)

 

I did a rebuild (SPi) that took about 3 months (over a hot summer) & the injector refused to open even after that short time, so the dry plugs would make me look in that direction.

I did get the old one to work again, but it took a lot of new fuel & Redex before I got a clean spray pattern.

 

The Crank sensor dictates spark and injector timings, so if you've got a spark, then you're obviously getting a signal, so no reason to panic yet....

 

Have you tried cranking the engine whist squirting Easy Start into the filter housing? That would be my next step.

 

I did manage to get the injector squirting by removing the plug & connecting 12v between the points - obviously the system needs to be pressurised & you need to pulse the signal. This was easy to see on the SPi, but not sure if that's possible on the MPi.

 

Can you check the injectors on your ACR? Mine has a function for this, but again only used it on an SPi.

 

I'm sorry I can't help more than that, but I really don't stink it's the flywheel - unless you changed the clutch / diaphragm.

 

Good luck

MA



#36 MiniAida

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 11:08 AM

I'm sorry I can't help more than that, but I really don't stink it's the flywheel - unless you changed the clutch / diaphragm.

 

Lol I don't think it's the flywheel



#37 Wiggy

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 02:14 PM

Ok. The verdict.

 

Thanks to Spocket, and his excellent diagram, it turns out  I have not  put the flywheel 180° out! That's quite a relief.

 

Fuel pump is definitely priming, and the inertia switch is pressed. 

 

I've turned her over and the ACR says:

 

CAM SENSOR SYNC = GOOD

CRANK SENSOR SYNC = GOOD

And the injectors are being asked to pulse.

 

They are not squirting fuel though. I popped them out of the rail to check. 

 

So unless anyone has any other ideas, I would tend to agree with MiniAida that they're gummed up.


Edited by Wiggy, 30 April 2018 - 02:15 PM.


#38 Homersimpson

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 09:00 PM

Ok. The verdict.

 

Thanks to Spocket, and his excellent diagram, it turns out  I have not  put the flywheel 180° out! That's quite a relief.

 

Fuel pump is definitely priming, and the inertia switch is pressed. 

 

I've turned her over and the ACR says:

 

CAM SENSOR SYNC = GOOD

CRANK SENSOR SYNC = GOOD

And the injectors are being asked to pulse.

 

They are not squirting fuel though. I popped them out of the rail to check. 

 

So unless anyone has any other ideas, I would tend to agree with MiniAida that they're gummed up.

I would suggest that its unlikely that all four injectors would be gummed up to the point that no fuel comes out, i've had cars that have been stood for years and have been ok to start.

 

It isn't something daft like the fuel inertia switch has been knocked (I think it may be on the bulkhead and it you push the top in to turn the fuel back on?).

 

If you pour some fuel down the carb does it fire then (not to much just a thimble full.



#39 Sprocket

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 09:22 PM

you can simply apply 12v and ground on the injector and then listen to it click on and off as you remove the voltage. If you don't here it click, good chance they are stuck closed. options then are to send them off for cleaning and testing, or replacing them. Dont leave 12v on the injectors like this for too long as the will overheat and burn out, for testing purposes, it will be ok and no damage will occur

 

I had four of those injectors in my 16v engine sat there for nearly 5 years. Finally came to start the engine up end of last year and they were all stuck. I just bit the bullet and bought four new modern injectors instead because i'm not restricted on what injectors I can use.


Edited by Sprocket, 30 April 2018 - 09:23 PM.


#40 Wiggy

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 11:17 PM

No disrespect Mr. Simpson, but there are only 2 injectors on an MPI, and I've already said that the inertia switch is fine. But thank you for your reply.

Mr. Sprocket, I think that we're on the same page. The injectors are currently sitting in a bath of Redex. I'll give them a workout in the morning. It can only be gummed injectors or a wiring fault as far as I'm concerned; judging by the wiring diagrams that's unlikely to affect both injectors.

#41 cian

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 04:26 AM

I had an mpi in recently for non starting, got fuel to the rail but not out of the injectors diagnostics shown a pulse signal from ecu to the injectors, tested them and they where clicking but no amount of cleaning would get them to perform put two working used injectors in and she fired up immediately

#42 Wiggy

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 11:33 AM

Hopefully I can get them working, Cian. They seem quite expensive for what they are.

#43 cian

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 12:31 PM

I got mine used for £30 I believe

#44 jamesmpi

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 08:24 PM

Hopefully I can get them working, Cian. They seem quite expensive for what they are.


Cheapest place seems be eBay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/371795109705

#45 Wiggy

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 04:30 PM   Best Answer

She runs!!! It was blocked injectors! I'm over the moon! Thank you so much for the help.

 

 

I had an mpi in recently for non starting, got fuel to the rail but not out of the injectors diagnostics shown a pulse signal from ecu to the injectors, tested them and they where clicking but no amount of cleaning would get them to perform put two working used injectors in and she fired up immediately

 

My injectors were the same. Just clicking, no flow at all. The Redex didn't do much; so I got a small syringe of Unleaded, stuck it in the top, and squeezed the plunger moderately hard. Then the missus pulsed the injectors a few times with some wire and a car battery. After a few tries they squirted like a good'un!






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