39 replies to this topic

[mab01uk]

I also doubt the Italian Job story of B Series engines.........however there were a few road and racing Minis fitted with BMC 1800 B Series engine /gearboxes in the 1960/70's but like the similar Maxi 1750 engine/5-speed gearbox Mini conversion it was usually the extra weight and height which out weighed any performance gains.

 

Mini - Maxi engine swap below from back in the days before Honda Vtec and Vauxhall 16v engine conversions........







This Mini was originally built by the custom car specialist Andy Saunders in 1992. Built on a new body shell using space frame rear end and 1750cc Austin Maxi engine and 5 speed gearbox. It has twin HIF6 SU carbs. The body is a KAT kit
Featured in Fast Car magazine December 1991.

 

 

 

 

It is said this 1960/70's race Mini above was running an 1800cc transverse B-Series engine/gearbox out of the 'big Issigonis Mini' the Austin/Morris 1800 'Landcrab' but the carbs are at the front.....so if true I'm not sure what head was fitted?

Edited by mab01uk, 09 May 2018 - 06:20 AM.

[Spider]

Yes, there's a Moke here in Aust that was built by a clever fellow by the name of Robbin Booth, that had the 1500 E Series Engine in it with a 5 speed gearbox. Perhaps the 1750 would have been better (we never got them here), however, this Moke as well built as it is, is very heavy and as was proven time and again, a stock 1275 Moke outperformed it in every way. Still, I do admire Robin's efforts and have high respect for him having a go.

[mini_pooper]

 

 

Just as an interesting fact...

The Mini's in the Italian Job, were fitted with the B' Series engine, as they were worried the the A' Series wouldn't be powerful enough to make the roof jumps, and climb the stairs!

 

 

Any idea what gearbox they used?

 

 

They would have used the Issigonis designed Austin/Morris 1800 (Landcrab) B-Series engine and gearbox which is basically a big Mini with transverse engine and gearbox in the sump like a Mini (plus Hydrolastic suspension)........

BMC 1800 development story

https://www.aronline...elopment-story/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There was also a fwd transverse E-Series straight six engine and gearbox for the 2200cc versions shown below in the Wolseley Six.....

 

 

 

Looking at the engine bay of the white land crab with a B series engine, most would probably pass it off as an A Series.

 

A couple of things to note by looking at it, is that the engine number is not attached on the right hand side, but rather in the middle between spark plugs 2 and 3. Another thing is that the rocker cover looks squarer (and maybe larger) than that used on the A Series.

 

Interestingly, it would appear the Landcrab had a much taller subframe as the shock absorber mounting points are right next to where the Mini has the top engine steady 

[DeadSquare]

 

 

 

Just as an interesting fact...

The Mini's in the Italian Job, were fitted with the B' Series engine, as they were worried the the A' Series wouldn't be powerful enough to make the roof jumps, and climb the stairs!

 

 

Any idea what gearbox they used?

 

 

They would have used the Issigonis designed Austin/Morris 1800 (Landcrab) B-Series engine and gearbox which is basically a big Mini with transverse engine and gearbox in the sump like a Mini (plus Hydrolastic suspension)........

BMC 1800 development story

https://www.aronline...elopment-story/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There was also a fwd transverse E-Series straight six engine and gearbox for the 2200cc versions shown below in the Wolseley Six.....

 

 

 

Looking at the engine bay of the white land crab with a B series engine, most would probably pass it off as an A Series.

 

A couple of things to note by looking at it, is that the engine number is not attached on the right hand side, but rather in the middle between spark plugs 2 and 3. Another thing is that the rocker cover looks squarer (and maybe larger) than that used on the A Series.

 

Interestingly, it would appear the Landcrab had a much taller subframe as the shock absorber mounting points are right next to where the Mini has the top engine steady 

 

 

 

The 1800 didn't have shock absorbers, it was hydrolastic and the friction of the fluid in the pipes was enough damping.

 

What you are looking at is a stubby engine damper.

[Ethel]

To make the roof jump the Italian Job Minis would just need speed - easier to build a ramp and  less weight, rather than more power, would also help in stopping once on the other side.

[r3k1355]

Also if you're doing a jump in a very nose-heavy vehicle - won't it just go spectacularly wrong??

[Spider]

There's a book written on the Movie by someone who was involved in that making of it.

 

https://www.amazon.c...d/dp/0713486821

[Spider]

To make the roof jump the Italian Job Minis would just need speed - easier to build a ramp and  less weight, rather than more power, would also help in stopping once on the other side.

 

They did the jump at around 110 kph and the cars were airborne for over 20 metres. The distance between the buildings was around 4 metres.

As you've said, they only needed a correctly angled ramp. They didn't need much more than 1/2 decent 998 engines.

[whistler]

When I wanted to "hot-up" a Morris Minor in the late 50's, Alick Dick of Standard Triumph told me that the A series started life before the war with a sporty single overhead cam.  At some point it became a side-valve engine, hence the two tappet chest covers, before morphing into the 803cc overhead valve engine.
 
I don't know when the 1200cc B series engine went into production.

The early Morris Oxfords (split screen) were sidevalve as well.

[Cooperman]

There is no way a B-series was used in the Italian Job cars. The engineering required would have been huge and the cars not necessarily any quicker. It's just another myth.

The C-series was a good engine. In fact i learned to drive in an RAF Austin 1-ton truck which had a 2.6 litre C-series engine, but that was back in 1958 - '59.

[Spider]

 

When I wanted to "hot-up" a Morris Minor in the late 50's, Alick Dick of Standard Triumph told me that the A series started life before the war with a sporty single overhead cam.  At some point it became a side-valve engine, hence the two tappet chest covers, before morphing into the 803cc overhead valve engine.
 
I don't know when the 1200cc B series engine went into production.

The early Morris Oxfords (split screen) were sidevalve as well.

 

 

The A, B and C Series Engine family are all Austin Engines. I believe some very early work was started just before the war and with the project more or less shelved over these years.

 

After the war, Morris were still manufacturing side bashers (side valves) and it was only very soon after the merger of Austin and Morris that the Morris range that was retained dropped their engines in favour of the more modern Austin units.

 

 

There is no way a B-series was used in the Italian Job cars. The engineering required would have been huge and the cars not necessarily any quicker. It's just another myth.

 

I found something on this;-

 

The stunt company engaged for all the driving stunts, L'Equip were selected not just for their driver's abilities, but that they knew the Mini very well and could also do any necessary preparation work as well as keep the cars that were surviving, running. They are quoted as commenting that 'We had to modify the Minis very little, they came virtually straight from the factory production line'

[Albino_Hedgehog]

Looking back I believe I misread about the roof jump.

It was the 1200 b series used to have the torque to climb up the stairs.

But, it's interesting to see the debate going on none the less!

[mab01uk]

AustinRoverOnline have info on all the BMC/BL engines here:-

https://www.aronline...igures/engines/

[spraybeater]

For the interest, a mate of mine ( that I used to mechanic for on his Autocross mini)

built a subframe for a home built MiniSprint, to take a 1800 Land crab engine and

box, he had a crown wheel and pinion machined for it in the Toolmakers Dept of

Singers sewing machine factory in Clydebank back in the early 70s.

 

 

A side valve engine that was fitted to a split window Moggie prior to the 803cc A series

my fist car was a Morris Oxford with a side valve engine, next was a ex Gpo Morris Van

with a 803 A series.

[EasterBern]

The B-series was, IIRC, a copy of a Bedford engine! It was introduced in 1947, the A-series was first fitted to the A30 in 1951.

 

I don't think the A-series was ever either side-valve or overhead valve. I suspect Alick Dick was referring to the Morris sidevalve engine that was originally fitted to the Minor (as mentioned above), I can well believe that was related to the OHC engine used by MG in the '30s. Though I'm no expert and likely to be wrong!

 

The A and B series engines are both Austin designs pre-dating the BMC merger.

 

I found that the B-series in my MGB got quite harsh above 3.5k, but the torque was so good that you could change up way before you got there!