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Gearbox Help Please


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#31 Its a min

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 05:27 PM

Hi all.

 

So, I've rebuilt the gearbox again. I found that using all the new baulk rings basically wouldn't allow the gears to turn freely so, I tried all my old baulk rings and ended up fitting just one, the least worn, and three new ones and everything seemed hunky-dory. All turned freely and if I squeezeed the gears together, although there was slight resistance but they still turned freely.

 

'Great', I thought, so installed them into the gearbox. Popped in the two end bearings. Checked before I knocked them all the way home and gears still turning freely so a few more taps and the circlip fitted, laygear fitted and tried again. Nooo! tight as anything. Looking from the clutch side, the shaft/gears turns anti-clockwise, albeit with a little resistance, but jams when I try turning it clockwise. It'll turn with some force but not freely. Is this normal as it only seemed to get worse once the laygear was fitted.

 

As you've probably gathered, I don't know much about gearboxes so any help would be appreciated.



#32 Its a min

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 05:40 PM

Hi Min,

 

I dug out some Bearings, some old (very old) up to the latest to measure

 

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I measured from the 'business side' of the Inner Race, to the 'Business side' of the circlip groove;-

 

DZOIcbk.jpg

 

 

I got a range over 5 bearings from 0.797" to 0.827" - a range of 0.030" over these bearings, keeping in mid these were all used bearings, so there maybe some wear, but they all still felt 'tight'. Also, I've measured these 'unloaded' (ie, without the 2 inner races being clamped up) so I suspect, when clamped up, these variations would come down a long way.

 

Just looking at the part numbers for this bearing from 1969 to the present day, there has been a few changes in these over that time, the first being 11MDJT1G, then a 3/MDJ1N, then a 1/MDJ25.4N (which looks to be just a metricated number of that previous), a CDU 1479, AAU1365etc etc, so apart from a metrification of the numbers, I'm unsure as to what the difference between them is, however, I have fitted these latest Bearings to everything, from the earliest to the latest, usually without issue, though I have ground a few (thinned the inner race) prior to cutting shims as needed to space the bearing closer to the Final Drive Pinion, usually only needing 0.020"

 

Coming back to your Bearing, at 1/8" (0.125") difference, that's HUGE and really has me scratching. Are you able to post up a photo?

 

I've come across the KOR brand Bearings, they are ~ OK ~ but there's no way I'd fit them in to a Gearbox!

 

 

 

 There is a distinctive larger space between the two rows on bearings on the inside of the cage holder which explains the larger size.

 

 ..........as the Minisport bearing fell apart when I was dismantling the gearbox despite it only being fitted for a less than a month and probably 2 miles use.....

 

I'm just wondering here if the 2 inner races are actually and properly clipped together?

 

As I think you've found out, the Inner Race is actually made up of 2 Races and they have a C shaped spring clip that holds them together.

 

Also, in regards to the Bearing 'exploding' you'll likely find on disassembly, with the late Mainshafts, all Bearings will do this. The Bearings are an interference fit on these shafts (quite so) and so they are difficult to budge off the shaft once fitted. On disassembly, in the normal way, it's necessary (as you are aware) to slide this Bearing down the Mainshaft in order for the remove of the Shaft itself from the Box.

 

The early and early A+ types were a 'slide' fit. I found no issues from this type of fitment. Nowdays, with these later shafts, I take a lick off them with a diamond lap so the Bearing is a neat slip fit, no more exploding bearings.

 

Hi Moke Spider,

 

Silly me. After seeing your photos, I realised my original one looked similar to the middle one in your photo. I hadn't taken into account the ball bearings would be out further as the bearing was in pieces. I tried to reconstruct it to see and it's only the outer race which is wider and yep, I found out the Inner Race is made up of 2 Races and they have a C shaped spring clip that holds them together. Managed to put it all back together again and it makes a lovely paperweight. :lol:

 

Now the cheeky me. Any ideas on my last post prior to your reply?

 

Cheers.


Edited by Its a min, 25 August 2018 - 05:41 PM.


#33 GraemeC

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 05:44 PM

Don't panic until you have put the input shaft and output pinion nuts and and torqued them up - there will pull everything apart slightly and it'll probably free up.



#34 Its a min

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 05:48 PM

Don't panic until you have put the input shaft and output pinion nuts and and torqued them up - there will pull everything apart slightly and it'll probably free up.

 

Ahh! I didn't think of that!

 

Cheers GraemeC



#35 Its a min

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 12:42 PM

Quick question.

 

Should the gears be lined up with the laygear?

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Edited by Its a min, 26 August 2018 - 12:43 PM.


#36 DeadSquare

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 03:15 PM

Quite often the gears do not line up perfectly, but if my gears were that far out, I'd be looking for the reason.



#37 Its a min

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 03:24 PM

Quite often the gears do not line up perfectly, but if my gears were that far out, I'd be looking for the reason.

 

Hi DeadSquare,

 

That's what I thought. I changed the layshaft thrust washer as the gap was way out of range (too big). With the new thrust washer, the gap is .0035 which is roughly what's been recommended.

 

Cheers.



#38 DeadSquare

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 03:38 PM

If the gears had been like that before, there would be an unpolished mark where they had not been meshing.

 

The most that I have ever seen was less than 1mm.



#39 Spider

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 07:03 PM

Fit up the Big 'C' Bearing Retaining Plate to the Mainshaft Bearing first, then have another look.



#40 Bradchap

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 09:27 PM

This has made me nervous, I rebuilt my gearbox a while ago and it's been waiting for the shell to be finished, anyway I had a lot of problems with baulk rings locking the gearbox, I ended up using 1 old one and the rest new but even then the input was tight when I held the output in neutral, (couldn't turn by hand but was easy with a spanner) engines just gone in couple of days ago but I'm yet to try it, do you think it will be ok?

#41 Spider

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 09:40 PM

This has made me nervous, I rebuilt my gearbox a while ago and it's been waiting for the shell to be finished, anyway I had a lot of problems with baulk rings locking the gearbox, I ended up using 1 old one and the rest new but even then the input was tight when I held the output in neutral, (couldn't turn by hand but was easy with a spanner) engines just gone in couple of days ago but I'm yet to try it, do you think it will be ok?

 

I'm probably the bearer of bad news.

 

It really should be 'free spinning' when in Neutral. When I say 'free spinning' I don't actually mean it will sin like a top, but there should be no drag.

 

To determine if there is drag, when spinning over the Input Gear by hand, you can usually feel it, to be sure that it really is drag, if you select 1 gear at a time and turn it, it will feel like or may even, lock up in all but 1 gear, usually 'freeing up' on either 3rd or 4th gears. The Gear that it frees up on, is actually the one that's dragging.



#42 Bradchap

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 09:49 PM

It was the same as yours "it's a min" free in one direction but binds in the other when turning the input shaft, each gear would select fine and the gearbox span freely, it was only in neutral when the output was held I felt any drag I'm hoping it will be ok, will be interesting to follow your progress.

Edited by Bradchap, 26 August 2018 - 09:51 PM.


#43 Its a min

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 09:49 PM

This has made me nervous, I rebuilt my gearbox a while ago and it's been waiting for the shell to be finished, anyway I had a lot of problems with baulk rings locking the gearbox, I ended up using 1 old one and the rest new but even then the input was tight when I held the output in neutral, (couldn't turn by hand but was easy with a spanner) engines just gone in couple of days ago but I'm yet to try it, do you think it will be ok?

 

Hi Bradchap.

 

Sounds exactly like the problem I had. Engine stayed in one week then it was out again.

 

Would I do it again without the gears turning freely? Not a chance.



#44 Bradchap

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 09:53 PM

Each gear would select fine and the gearbox span freely, it was only in neutral when the output was held I felt any drag and only in one direction.

#45 Its a min

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 09:55 PM

Fit up the Big 'C' Bearing Retaining Plate to the Mainshaft Bearing first, then have another look.

 

Hi Moke Spider,

 

Tomorrow I'll be fitting and torquing everything up before checking and double checking everything over. The gearbox won't be going on the block until I'm 100% this time.

 

I'll update once I'm done.

 

Cheers again for now.






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