30 replies to this topic

[unburntfuelinthemorning]

Are forum members aware of the government consultation currently taking place about the introduction of E10 petrol.  It seems like they are prepared to guarantee the availability of an E5 grade of 95 RON but only for a few years.  There is also talk of "super" grades being withdrawn when E10 is introduced.

 

More information:  http://fbhvc.co.uk/l...-fuels/surveys/

 

The fbhvc were running a survey but this has unfortunately finished now.

 

We've had to cope with lower octane levels, the introduction of unleaded petrol, low sulphur unleaded, E5 and now here comes E10.

[Spider]

I think something similar is headed our way too.

 

From what I've noticed in regards to Ethanol in the fuels, they are similar to Cat's Pee as the damages are similar. The issues I've observed are;-

 

     Rotting Rubber Fuel Lines

     Corrosion of the SU Fuel Bowls

     Rusting of the Fuel Tanks

 

I've also head of some experiencing corrosion of the metal fuel lines, apparently a reaction from the fuel and the zinc coating inside the pipe.

 

It would appear that the issue of Rotting Rubber Fuel Lines can be easily overcome, however, the other items are not so easily overcome.

 

If using a Mechanical Fuel Pump, you need to be very careful here or you can end up with a sump of fuel, not good for lubrication and can cause a crank-case explosion. Not a good way to end the day.

 

I gotta say, while E10 fuels are widely available here and usually a lot cheaper than non-E fuels, I avoid them in all out cars. I've found without question in the daily work horse and a wagon I have, the performance and mileage per tank is way less to the point where is cheaper to buy the more expensive 95 non-E fuels. Ethanol Fuels are equivalent to Cat's pee. Even the ride on mower doesn't like it.

[nicklouse]

out here on the mainland we can get 95 98 and E10 and some places do 102

 

as you may know 95 and 98 (and i guess 102) are already 5% Ethanol (check the labels at the filling station) i dont really see the situation being different to what we have here. you pull up and you fill with what you want. if you dont want/need e10 no probs the others will be there.

 

but then it is the UK Government so who knows.

[Ethel]

What's the point if we're only supposed to have another 7 years of petrol car production left?

 

You can still cut down the forests to grow palm oil and corn to offset the carbon, but if we're likely to still be cracking crude for petro-chemicals to get enough petrol as well, does it matter which we fill up the rapidly declining number of petrol cars with?

 

It'd take more than 7 years to regrow the forests when we no longer want the ethanol.

[unburntfuelinthemorning]

I stumbled across this.  It's a biking blog but is terribly relevant:

 

https://armchairbike...s-need-to-know/

[Cooperman]

It looks as though Avgas 100LL will be available for many years because, unlike road transport, aircraft cannot run on alternative fuels without the type certificate holder authorising it. A piston engined aircraft with a supercharger or turbocharger will almost always need 100LL petrol unless modified with a suitable alternative engine, the cost of which would potentially scrap the aircraft.

If that is the only way to keep our low-mileage classic cars on the road then that is the, albeit expensive, answer. It may be that Avgas 100LL used in one fill-up out of every three, together with a lead replacement and octane booster will work well.

We shall see.

[MatthewsDad]

The worst aspect for me is the cynical 'green' branding of E5 and E10 fuel. Many motorists think they're doing their bit for the environment when they choose these fuels, but they don't avoid carbon emissions and are definitely not a renewable energy source.

[Retroman]

Add ethanol to the list of nuclear power, catalytic converters and EV's they all tick governmental green boxes

 

but overall are less efficient and more expensive to the world and our pockets

 

I still fail to see how 1% of 0.04% (4 ppm) Co2 affects anything

[Bat]

Hi,

So it would seem that the biggest problem is it dissolves rubber!

That means the tip on your float chamber valve, probably your fuel pump and the fuel hoses!

Then if it combines with any water in your fuel system, like condensation in the tank is creates a jelly like substance!

Fantastic, thanks EU!

Cheers 

[Bat]

What's the point if we're only supposed to have another 7 years of petrol car production left?

 

You can still cut down the forests to grow palm oil and corn to offset the carbon, but if we're likely to still be cracking crude for petro-chemicals to get enough petrol as well, does it matter which we fill up the rapidly declining number of petrol cars with?

 

It'd take more than 7 years to regrow the forests when we no longer want the ethanol.

Hi,

The reason being"we" agreed to it in 2009!

Cheers 

[unburntfuelinthemorning]

The bike blog bloke reckons "viton" was one type of rubber not affected by ethanol so our viton tipped needle valves may survive.

 

I'm more concerned by what Moke Spider says about the affect on mechanical fuel pumps but it should still be easy to replace them with ethanol compatible electric ones.

 

They have used high ethanol percentages in Petrol in Brazil for a long time so they must have found a way of making it reliable in their old Beetles. 

 

Using the vehicle regularly would also seem to mitigate some of the side effects - not so good for occasional users of course.

 

Millers Power Plus claims to combat the adverse effects of ethanol in fuel up to E10, protect against fuel system corrosion and contains an anti oxidant which all sounds helpful.

 

It seems like this is coming whether we like it or not so we may as well find ways to live with it.  Nuts to the environmental claims though, I'm sure it's making money for vested interests like the government who will see their tax take increase as everybody's vehicles become slightly less efficient thus requiring more fuel to be bought.

[Bat]

Hi,

Spain have just re-labeled their fuel pumps to E5 and E10.

Wether they have just changed the fuel or it's had ethanol in it for ages I don't know..

Cheers 

[Pete649]

What's the point if we're only supposed to have another 7 years of petrol car production left?

 

I thought it was 2040.

[jomaoliveira79]

In Brazil carburettors have a special coating and when that coating gets damaged (what occurs from 10/15 years) alloy carb parts suffer from severe pitting.
Rubber parts suffer also from premature wear and must be renewed on shorts periods of time. Beetles do get on fire a lot in Brazil!
So from tank to exhaust our cars will certainly suffer from ethanol...

[Ethel]

 

What's the point if we're only supposed to have another 7 years of petrol car production left?

 

I thought it was 2040.

 

I just had a quick Google to get that figure.  2040 is the purported outright ban, I think 7 years is when manufacturers are supposed to commit to setting the ball rolling.  Not sure any new cars have a 15 year production life nowadays.