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Engine Mounts - Quality And Fit

suspension engine

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#1 chuee

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Posted 16 October 2018 - 09:19 PM

While I was at it, I had the engine mounts to replace, with engine in car.

 

Upon dismantling (I've had the car only a year - it's other folks work), The clutch side had a steel bar tack across the  mounting to pack int out, about 1/4 inch. The mounts had captive nuts. :huh:

 

I had on the shelf some of those from minispares with captive nuts.  They looked cheap too me, but I tried them; Fitting the mounts, no matter how I lifted the car and engine, I always ended up with about 1" free space between one side of the engine and its mount, after fitting the opposite side.

Finally, with the clutch side on first, with 1"  subframe-to-mount bolts and nuts kept loose,  I managed to get a 1" bolt onto the timing side mount, and proceeded tighten it to close the gap. The mount just ripped apart. :ohno:

 

My subframe seems to been good condition - no cracks in the welds, no weak spots. The members seem well formed.

 

There are more expensive mounts. I've just ordered some - without captives, and at twice the price. :proud:

I'll have see how the new mounts offer up when they arrive shortly. I'll let you know.

 

Never had such a fitting problem - a wide space to fill, on previous minis. Do I have a problem, other than choice of mounts?

Comments welcome with this experience!

 

p.s its an MG metro in a 1991 mini, verto clutch. I had similar engine in a mini clubman van no problem - cant remember   if it that a veto clutch though- I think not.


Edited by chuee, 16 October 2018 - 09:34 PM.


#2 GraemeC

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Posted 16 October 2018 - 09:22 PM

Sounds like it could be an Auto subframe

#3 Cooperman

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Posted 16 October 2018 - 09:59 PM

Sounds like it could be an Auto subframe

 

Agreed. It sounds like the wrong sub-frame and that's a bit of a b****r!

Also never, and I mean NEVER, fit the mountings with the captive nuts. You only have to get a slight cross-thread and the captive nut will spin and you'll need an angle grinder to get the bolt out, followed by fitting another mounting.

If you want trapped nuts, then MIG-weld some really good quality 5/16" UNF nuts to original specification mountings as sold by Mini Spares. You can also open out the holes in the sub-frame to around 3/8" diameter and use large 'penny' washers under the bolt heads. That makes it easy to line the holes up and the tolerance on engine position is more than 1/16" either side.

When lowering the engine so that the mountings put some grease on the face of the mountings as that makes them much easier to slide into position.



#4 chuee

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Posted 16 October 2018 - 10:12 PM

OH  :mmkay:  Cheers for  that lead lads. Good to know - I mean , really!

 Whats an 'Auto' subframe? An automatic, you mean? Does the mean I must change it straight away do you think?

 

What is the effect of packing it out (until I have the engine out at a more  useful time in the future?


Edited by chuee, 16 October 2018 - 10:17 PM.


#5 nicklouse

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Posted 16 October 2018 - 10:14 PM

OH  :mmkay:  Cheers for  that lead lads.

 Whats an 'Auto' subframe?

one that was originally for an Automatic Mini



#6 chuee

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Posted 16 October 2018 - 10:27 PM

Thanks... obvious really, but I'm fairly thick at times!

 

I see there is a kit around for conversion, two plates, one either side,  0.4 inches (10mm) thick. I think I'll just make a pair up, and that will do nicely. Not sure if it would NEED a subframe change.



#7 nicklouse

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Posted 16 October 2018 - 10:34 PM

yes see Minispares web pages



#8 chuee

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Posted 17 October 2018 - 06:14 AM

Sorted, then I think. Thanks a lot... Really Good to have quick confirmation of a problem.


Edited by chuee, 17 October 2018 - 06:16 AM.


#9 richmondclassicsnorthwales

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Posted 17 October 2018 - 11:54 AM

MSSK052

 

These are what you need



#10 chuee

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Posted 17 October 2018 - 01:26 PM

THat's right. They're on their way - I didn't have any 10mm steel plate around.



#11 chuee

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Posted 20 October 2018 - 09:49 AM

Received the parts quickly from York minispares and fitted the mounts. The 10mm spacer either side is exactly right fit, and good quality. The rubbers seem good, but unfortunately came with captive nuts (at least they were nuts and not round). So, along with the tight fit and extra 10mm straight hole to put the bolt through, not any easier.

 

I had to pull the engine down with the amazing strap round the engine and under the trolley jack, whilst lifting the subframe. That worked well.

Three bolts went in ... the last, well, captive threads easily get ruined when trying to thread the bolt on. Much better to just push a bolt through, then add the nut.

 

I had to resort to a tap to get the last to clear and thread nicely. I was out by less than a mm, I'm sure!

The extra bolt holds the spacer on fine, but the spacer will still tilt when dropping the engine in a tight space; I had to tap them to align again, with a drift.

 

SO, verdict is, best to just make up your own spacers. Also, best to tack weld them on to the subframe for future mount replacements. Even better , to braze all along, to avoid moisture trap.



#12 DeadSquare

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Posted 20 October 2018 - 01:33 PM

I do wish I had known about this.  I have had a couple of auto Minis and didn't realise that they had a different subframe.

 

I have spent the summer building a 6 speed sequential box, using the gears from a BMW 1300K bike.

 

I had to slice up two casings and re-weld them 17MM  longer, and then butcher a subframe to recess the engine mounts either side.

 

Does any one know exactly what the difference is in the mounting dimensions, from gearbox to pulley, of an auto and a manual frame, ie: the afore mentioned 10MM each side, quantified by the angle at which the mountings are set from the perpendicular?



#13 chuee

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Posted 20 October 2018 - 11:56 PM

 

 

I had to slice up two casings and re-weld them 17MM  longer, and then butcher a subframe to recess the engine mounts either side.

 

Does any one know exactly what the difference is in the mounting dimensions.. of an auto and a manual frame...quantified by the angle at which the mountings are set from the perpendicular?

 

I think you mean a 'longer' gearbox mounted across the width of the engine bay, looking at the engine bay from the front,  SO you want to know the difference in mounting dimensions across the width of the engine bay.... 'quantified by the angle..'

 

Seems to me it would surely be (10 x 2)mm at all points on the sloping height as it lies,  of the subframe member (or width properly); That is given by the two 10mm spacers, which are found to be precise (in mm I know - how come?!).. so lets say, as near as dammit.

See, its at the same extra 10mm at the top of the spacer and at the bottom, lying at an angle... and would continue to be the same above and below the spacer, until the member changes shape at the top and bottom - which is outside of the area of the mounting points.

Someone might like to confirm that to us. O_O

 

I would like to measure mine for you, but I don't think it would be taken accurately enough as it is on the car with an engine in the way. Best to measure one of yours and add 20 mm (if I am right) :proud:  to any point you choose to measure.. from top to bottom of the member height. Or perhaps find a drawing... should bet available amongst us.

 

And, if I am right, The  auto subframe would definitely take 17mm  of extra  gearbox... 3mm to spare is no big deal, shim it up. But I imagine it could displace the rod control if not lucky or careful, because the engine could shift 8.5mm to left.....


Edited by chuee, 21 October 2018 - 12:07 AM.


#14 MIGLIACARS

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 09:13 AM

I do wish I had known about this.  I have had a couple of auto Minis and didn't realise that they had a different subframe.

 

I have spent the summer building a 6 speed sequential box, using the gears from a BMW 1300K bike.

 

I had to slice up two casings and re-weld them 17MM  longer, and then butcher a subframe to recess the engine mounts either side.

 

Does any one know exactly what the difference is in the mounting dimensions, from gearbox to pulley, of an auto and a manual frame, ie: the afore mentioned 10MM each side, quantified by the angle at which the mountings are set from the perpendicular?

tell us about the box



#15 Dusky

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 03:35 PM

Imho, the captive mounts with the nuts on them are perfect. Worst case scenario they start turning, but you still have the advantage of the nut being stuck on there rather than having to hold it yourself. :)







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