68 replies to this topic

[mab01uk]

 

You can buy heritage mk1 shells these days so I think it can be done legally, just.

They’re a lot better now I believe, but not good enough to use to restore something like this.

 

 

The Heritage Mk1 shell with perhaps some extra M-Machine panels incorporated would be a good enough restoration for me of this S but you will never satisfy the rivet counters.....

[Bobbins]

Although it involves substantially more work surely replacing the rot but retaining anything that's sound (even if it's 80% that gets replaced) keeps it more original and hence more valuable than using a Heritage shell? Works Coopers may have been trashed and reshelled, but that's a different providence, this is a road car and the value is in the originality, not much point in paying £20K for it because it's original only to reshell it!

[CityEPete]

The originality is long gone either way.

[KTS]

 

 

You can buy heritage mk1 shells these days so I think it can be done legally, just.

They’re a lot better now I believe, but not good enough to use to restore something like this.

 

 

The Heritage Mk1 shell with perhaps some extra M-Machine panels incorporated would be a good enough restoration for me of this S but you will never satisfy the rivet counters.....

 

 

...so is it actually an 'S'  ?

 

it looks to b on Cooper 3.5" rims, and has (..i think..) an Austin Cooper boot badge, but there's no sign of a r/h tank?

 

Did not all 'S' variants have twin tanks ?

[johnv]

They didn’t, it was an option on earlier cars

[Cooperman]

Twin tanks were only standard from early 1966 and that is a '65 car. It would also not have hardy-spicer drive shaft couplings as standard.

3.5" wheels were standard on the 'S' with 4.5" as an option. Those are 3.5" 'S' wheels with the vent holes.

I think it is an 'S' and it appears to still have an engine & gearbox.

Without doubt someone will restore it into a Mk.1 shell and it will be exactly what an 'S' should be like in every respect.

I believe a rust-free Mk.1 shell, in primer and ready to be finish painted and built up could be had for around £5,000 to £6,000 and that would be complete with the original V5, although it will be registered as the 'S' eventually.

The 'Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs' has been pressing the DVLA to permit re-shelling into previously used shells of an identical make & model. This makes a lot of sense as it only regularises what has been happening for many years and protects classic cars for the future. If new shells are not available there is no option if a shell is too far gone for economical repair. Those against it seem to be those who would like to see cars similar to theirs reduce in number to thus enhance the value of theirs.

Re-shelling will continue and is undetectable on older vehicles such as Minis, Fords, etc.

The strange thing is that with old aircraft it is totally accepted. There are Spitfires, Hurricanes and Mustangs which have been totally rebuilt with non-original wings and fuselages, but they are accepted as what they are, Spitfires, Hurricanes and Mustangs.

Edited by Cooperman, 10 November 2018 - 04:42 PM.

[CityEPete]

More rally car nonsense.

Those that complain about it like the existing mk1 cars just as they are.

There are shells available that permit legal use of a new shell so there's no need to ring another super deluxe.

[Ethel]

Twin tanks were only standard from early 1966 and that is a '65 car. It would also not have hardy-spicer drive shaft couplings as standard.

3.5" wheels were standard on the 'S' with 4.5" as an option. Those are 3.5" 'S' wheels with the vent holes.

I think it is an 'S' and it appears to still have an engine & gearbox.

Without doubt someone will restore it into a Mk.1 shell and it will be exactly what an 'S' should be like in every respect.

I believe a rust-free Mk.1 shell, in primer and ready to be finish painted and built up could be had for around £5,000 to £6,000 and that would be complete with the original V5, although it will be registered as the 'S' eventually.

The 'Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs' has been pressing the DVLA to permit re-shelling into previously used shells of an identical make & model. This makes a lot of sense as it only regularises what has been happening for many years and protects classic cars for the future. If new shells are not available there is no option if a shell is too far gone for economical repair. Those against it seem to be those who would like to see cars similar to theirs reduce in number to thus enhance the value of theirs.

Re-shelling will continue and is undetectable on older vehicles such as Minis, Fords, etc.

The strange thing is that with old aircraft it is totally accepted. There are Spitfires, Hurricanes and Mustangs which have been totally rebuilt with non-original wings and fuselages, but they are accepted as what they are, Spitfires, Hurricanes and Mustangs.

 

 

Playing devil's aardvark, wouldn't that mean more mundane models would be sacrificed for someone to cobble together a car that'll sell for more but isn't necessarily as rare or historically significant?  

 

If it's the experience you're after it ought to be just as enjoyable to have an 850 that's fully "Cooperised", as an "S" that's had a full body transplant from an 850 donor.

 

I do accept the higher value of an "S" can make the difference between it being viable to save a Mini at all. Though, I wonder if it's not more likely that, if you can afford £20k for a basket case, you won't just fork out a few more thousands on  the best mundane Mini you can find - net gain zero Minis.

[surfblue]

Its the standard Mk1 humble 850 saloons that are rarer than Coopers and Ss now, so many having been sacrificed to rejuvenate a Cooper. Any car or Mini show there are about 3x more Coopers than standard cars.

[matt615]

Its the standard Mk1 humble 850 saloons that are rarer than Coopers and Ss now, so many having been sacrificed to rejuvenate a Cooper. Any car or Mini show there are about 3x more Coopers than standard cars.

Which is why MK1 850 values are now so high. It’s common to see them advertised for £15k ish.

[1984mini25]

 Any car or Mini show there are about 3x more Coopers than standard cars.

 

[attachment=198326:DSCF2918-1.png]

 

Case in point, BL 50th rally. 2x 90's coopers, 1x cooper s and one 89 Mayfair (white with red roof) pretending to be a mk1 cooper.

Edited by 1984mini25, 11 November 2018 - 04:35 PM.

[CityEPete]

Twin tanks were only standard from early 1966 and that is a '65 car. It would also not have hardy-spicer drive shaft couplings as standard.
3.5" wheels were standard on the 'S' with 4.5" as an option. Those are 3.5" 'S' wheels with the vent holes.
I think it is an 'S' and it appears to still have an engine & gearbox.
Without doubt someone will restore it into a Mk.1 shell and it will be exactly what an 'S' should be like in every respect.
I believe a rust-free Mk.1 shell, in primer and ready to be finish painted and built up could be had for around £5,000 to £6,000 and that would be complete with the original V5, although it will be registered as the 'S' eventually.
The 'Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs' has been pressing the DVLA to permit re-shelling into previously used shells of an identical make & model. This makes a lot of sense as it only regularises what has been happening for many years and protects classic cars for the future. If new shells are not available there is no option if a shell is too far gone for economical repair. Those against it seem to be those who would like to see cars similar to theirs reduce in number to thus enhance the value of theirs.
Re-shelling will continue and is undetectable on older vehicles such as Minis, Fords, etc.
The strange thing is that with old aircraft it is totally accepted. There are Spitfires, Hurricanes and Mustangs which have been totally rebuilt with non-original wings and fuselages, but they are accepted as what they are, Spitfires, Hurricanes and Mustangs.

Playing devil's aardvark, wouldn't that mean more mundane models would be sacrificed for someone to cobble together a car that'll sell for more but isn't necessarily as rare or historically significant?

If it's the experience you're after it ought to be just as enjoyable to have an 850 that's fully "Cooperised", as an "S" that's had a full body transplant from an 850 donor.

I do accept the higher value of an "S" can make the difference between it being viable to save a Mini at all. Though, I wonder if it's not more likely that, if you can afford £20k for a basket case, you won't just fork out a few more thousands on the best mundane Mini you can find - net gain zero Minis.

Top and bottom of it is the old boys don't care about ringing, the answer is in his own post but as usual it's ignored in the name of recreating a car that doesn't exist from a log book kept in a drawer for thirty years, from Coopermans own post "of identical make and model", that clearly refers to the model being another Cooper S shell, not a modified 850.

In time as the old guard go we might see some cars rebuilt back to their correct specification, not just 60s rally legends that are nothing of the sort but in another ten or twenty years the near stock Mpi coopers running around on early documents might get reunited with their original documents as the legal side gets tighter.

[Ethel]

That'd depend on their original id's still existing as far as the dvsa are concerned.

 

Personally I'm less bothered about the details on the logbooks than the cars. If a badge adds enough value to get a car saved I won't worry too much, but it's not good if a nod 'n a wink and a bit of rule bending queers the pitch for others.

[CityEPete]

Hopefully some of the knuckle heads have kept the v5 and VIN plates they took off to fit the tax exempt ones so they can be put back to normal.

The dvla or whatever they are called now aren't giving out documents like sweets anymore without seeing the vehicle, my brother has just had one declined for an Aprilla RS250, It is a legit frame and engine with a receipt and everything, the documents had been issued to his old address and all he wants is a new copy with the address change as the original has been lost but they want to see the full bike.

It's only a matter of time before we see someone here buy a 1974 MPI only to be refused a v5c after handing over the cash.

[Readers14]

It sold very close to where I live..........

If only I'd known I would have put a bid in for £25K...LOL

 

But if people want things so bad, they will pay good money for it.