68 replies to this topic

[Ethel]

If all they have is the V5 info they won't know which cars to target. Though, if a car hasn't been taxed for a decade it has to smell a bit fishy, especially if a later Mini goes off the radar with a shared address.

 

More serious is if they discover their insurance is invalidated when someone tries to make a claim and an assessor gets a closer look.

[Haynes]

Its the standard Mk1 humble 850 saloons that are rarer than Coopers and Ss now, so many having been sacrificed to rejuvenate a Cooper. Any car or Mini show there are about 3x more Coopers than standard cars.

 

Agree with this.

[giacomo]

 

the car, which needs a new body, engine and full restoration.

 

So this is gunna be a legit restoration or another one where the vin plates fall off and attach themselves onto the body of an 850 city ??

 

for £20000 i reckon they could afford a resell lol A lot of money to just slap on a 850 city....

[paulrockliffe]

I think the insurance risk is fairly low, it's unlikely that the 'wrong' shell would ever materially affect the nature of a claim in an accident.

It's more problematic in a theft claim, you can't expect a pay out for a Cooper S of it's an MPI, but if it's nicked no one will be looking at it.

[CityEPete]

If the owner is hoping for a payout upwards of thirty to fifty grand the insurance company will want a guaranteed valuation or at least some recent photos.

It could just end up with the document stuck on someone else's mint Cooper S and sold in another country.

[Cooperman]

A bit of over-reaction here maybe.

So far someone has bought a 1965 Cooper 'S' in need of full restoration. That's all that has happened so far.

What he/she does with it will be up to them. One might doubt that the details will be posted on here.

There is no evidence that a different shell will be used and that existing shell is quite capable of being fully restored so long as a body jig is used. In fact I know a guy who has such a jig and I have seen worse shells than that undergoing a full and comprehensive rebuild. We are fortunate that all Mini body parts are available for such a job including a full floor, front bulkhead, etc.

It may be that another shell of a similar year will be used, but that is nothing to do with any of us. There is no material difference between any Mk.1 shell of a given year except for a hole cut in the tunnel and some small brackets in the boot, which may well just be rivetted in.

I was recently shown a 1962 Ford Anglia 1200 which was being fully restored using a donor shell from a 1961 997 Anglia. In fact it was also being fitted with a 1500 cc Cortina GT engine.

It has happened with virtually all classics and the Sunbeam Tiger Club are often asked to verify those cars as Alpine shells are often modified and used to re-shell very rusty Tigers.

That is why the FBHVC are pressing for this to be made fully acceptable and legal. It is no good going on about it on here. That won't change anything as it doesn't apply to our relatively low-value Minis, but to really high value classics (e.g. the Sunbeam Tiger mentioned above).

We should not confuse this with taking, say, a 1997 car and fitting it with a much earlier identification in order to confuse, defraud and embezzle. That is an entirely different matter which we all deplore. I say a very early registration on a late shell recently. It was obviously intended to be seen as an early car and thus tax exempt. There are those who don't know the difference and might be taken in when looking to buy their first classic car. That is the real issue here.

[CityEPete]

Absolutely, we're just pontificating.

Hopefully we will see a welding marathon or a mk1 heritage shell and an awesome resto of it.

[Cooperman]

Absolutely, we're just pontificating.

Hopefully we will see a welding marathon or a mk1 heritage shell and an awesome resto of it.

And no-one will ever know what route was taken to achieve a high-quality result.

[mab01uk]

A Mk1 Cooper S in a similar state of decay is currently being restored by a member of the Mk1 Forum without using a Heritage Mk1 shell or a donor shell and its detailed restoration is being recorded by the owner in the 'Our Cars and Projects' section for anyone interested.....so it proves it is possible and economically feasible if you have the determination and practical skills to do most of the work yourself. If not you have to have the finances to fund someone else to do the work and possibly expect that there will be little or no financial gain in the short term.....or do a reshell and accept the loss of originalty, some value and provenance for some.

Edited by mab01uk, 12 November 2018 - 11:31 PM.

[rich_959]

It's certainlly on the forefront of a lot of forum members minds. I've had a few people challenging the 70's plate on my MPI mini, though it is just a registration I've purchased and is of course still registered as a 97 MPI car. The plate is just to align with the Mk3 looks I'll be aiming for - but I'll still be paying my tax and MOT etc. 

[Ethel]

A Mk1 Cooper S in a similar state of decay is currently being restored by a member of the Mk1 Forum without using a Heritage Mk1 shell or a donor shell and its detailed restoration is being recorded by the owner in the 'Our Cars and Projects' section for anyone interested.....so it proves it is possible and economically feasible if you have the determination and practical skills to do most of the work yourself. If not you have to have the finances to fund someone else to do the work and possibly expect that there will be little or no financial gain in the short term.....or do a reshell and accept the loss of originalty, some value and provenance for some.

I think this is where I'm at. There are issues with classic cars being turned in to commodities. We're offered special treatment by the government on the pretext that we're looking after part of the nation's heritage. That's not really the case if as much of it is destroyed or passed off as other bits just to make a bigger profit.

 

Taking this example if someone's made a £20k down payment on an "S" with the potential to be worth £50k. It would be better if they spent £20k supporting the parts and restoration businesses we all rely on, than £10k on a more humble MK1 one to rivet some brackets in. 

 

Taking away the V5 what would a scrap Mk1 S be worth in parts value?

 

I can kind of see Cooperman's argument for rarer classics, without the luxury of Heritage shells on offer, as long as the donors weren't viable restoration cases in their own right. We'll only have that luxury if it's used enough to support the business model and if someone with a £20k budget doesn't feel inclined to do so, who will?

[Bobbins]

But if a Mk1 shell is effectively an assembly of original Mk1 panels, does using that shell not make a re-shelled car more original than using new panels?

 

Just sayin'!

 

(I actually don't agree with my comment!)

[CityEPete]

Absolutely, we're just pontificating.

Hopefully we will see a welding marathon or a mk1 heritage shell and an awesome resto of it.

And no-one will ever know what route was taken to achieve a high-quality result.

Not necessarily, if it appears on the market in a scruffy body in a few weeks we will know if someone knows the VIN and reg (which they will), if it comes on the market in a few years and has a brand new shell it will be obvious probably even made obvious by the seller.

[MIGLIACARS]

A bit of over-reaction here maybe.

So far someone has bought a 1965 Cooper 'S' in need of full restoration. That's all that has happened so far.

What he/she does with it will be up to them. One might doubt that the details will be posted on here.

There is no evidence that a different shell will be used and that existing shell is quite capable of being fully restored so long as a body jig is used. In fact I know a guy who has such a jig and I have seen worse shells than that undergoing a full and comprehensive rebuild. We are fortunate that all Mini body parts are available for such a job including a full floor, front bulkhead, etc.

It may be that another shell of a similar year will be used, but that is nothing to do with any of us. There is no material difference between any Mk.1 shell of a given year except for a hole cut in the tunnel and some small brackets in the boot, which may well just be rivetted in.

I was recently shown a 1962 Ford Anglia 1200 which was being fully restored using a donor shell from a 1961 997 Anglia. In fact it was also being fitted with a 1500 cc Cortina GT engine.

It has happened with virtually all classics and the Sunbeam Tiger Club are often asked to verify those cars as Alpine shells are often modified and used to re-shell very rusty Tigers.

That is why the FBHVC are pressing for this to be made fully acceptable and legal. It is no good going on about it on here. That won't change anything as it doesn't apply to our relatively low-value Minis, but to really high value classics (e.g. the Sunbeam Tiger mentioned above).

We should not confuse this with taking, say, a 1997 car and fitting it with a much earlier identification in order to confuse, defraud and embezzle. That is an entirely different matter which we all deplore. I say a very early registration on a late shell recently. It was obviously intended to be seen as an early car and thus tax exempt. There are those who don't know the difference and might be taken in when looking to buy their first classic car. That is the real issue here.

I was there i bid £10000 on it i was surprised at the end bid.  I know lot of mini men in the trade thought they would get it for £10000 too.

[MIGLIACARS]

Most of you lot are jealous that u didn't have the £20000 for it.