16 replies to this topic

[rich_959]

As per the title really. What's the point where standard shocks no longer do the job and you need lowered shocks?

 

This is an MPI car, converted to 10" wheels. Standard cones, adjusta-rides and KYB gas-adjusts. I want to lower the car sightly below standard (not on the deck - it's for road use). Will the KYB's be ok?

[Swift_General]

When the trumpet/cone isn't seated properly under fully droop.

[rich_959]

Thanks! 

 

Full droop being when the car is jacked up and wheels are off the deck?

[Swift_General]

Thanks!

Full droop being when the car is jacked up and wheels are off the deck?

Yep. You may find whether you have have standard or lowered shocks, you might need to set them a little stiffer as you are reducing the available travel before the top arm hits the bump stop, without increasing the spring stiffness as of course the rubber cone is unchanged.

[nicklouse]

if you are going that low you then need the 1/8" spacer under the rebound bumper for the top arm.

 

should not need to adjust the dampers as the wheels weight has not changed. making a shock stiffer than needed to control the wheel will reduce the handling of the car.

[rich_959]

Thanks for the responses guys, much appreciated. 

 

Not intending to go too low (bumpy country roads around us) - just a touch lower than standard, so will see how I go with standard set up (and the hi-lo's adjusted down a little).

[Swift_General]

should not need to adjust the dampers as the wheels weight has not changed. making a shock stiffer than needed to control the wheel will reduce the handling of the car.

Agreed. But it may be preferable to the suspension bottoming out over every bump depending on how much the suspension is lowered and the sort of surface being driven on. I would just run at standard height myself as lowering simply reduces the minis already short suspension travel leading to these sorts of compromises.

[rich2]

If you want to be super accurate about it, Keith Calver has a good tech article on this subject:

 

https://www.calverst...o/fitment-data/

 

I used this info when I was doing mine to work out what dampers would be best for the ride height and travel I wanted without hitting the bodywork or damaging the damper.

[rich_959]

Thanks again guys. I think I'll end up fairly close to standard. I like the look of a little lowering on 10" wheels, but ultimately I want the ride and handling to be right. 

[DeadSquare]

When racing a much lowered Mini in the 60's/70's, I used to swap and invert the top damper bracket.

 

I am sure that I wasn't the only one, because at international race meetings, Armstrong, who made probably the best adjustable shocks at the time, used to have a box with some much thicker rebound stop rubbers.

 

I think that they must have been 'cut down' from some other vehicle, because I once sliced my "sporting" finger on a Very sharp edge when fitting one.

[Cooperman]

For use on our bumpy roads the last thing needed is a reduction in available suspension travel.

[rich_959]

For use on our bumpy roads the last thing needed is a reduction in available suspension travel.

 

 

Bit of a follow-up to my original query above.

 

Mr Cooperman, I have read several posts on your advice for road going mini set up and have decided to stick with my KYB gas-adjusts and almost standard ride height. To keep things simple (I don't want to be messing with adjustable suspension all the time for what is going to be a weekend fun car) I was going to go for the minispares 1.5 degree neg camber lower arms. If I do that, do I need the associated bush kit and adjustable tie bar kit? Basically, these three items on my shopping list?

 

http://www.minispare.../C-AJJ3364.aspx

 

http://www.minispare...c/C-STR632.aspx

 

http://www.minispare...ic/21A1092.aspx

 

The car has hi-lo's, standard cones and KYB gas-adjusts. My intention is to leave the rear standard. Does this seem like a reasonable set up?

[Cooperman]

Those arms are ideal and are what I always use on rally cars.
The offset bushes are great because they enable you to 'dial-in' a very accurate camber, although I don't usually bother for rally or normal road cars.
The adjustable tie bars mean the castor angle can be set to around 3 degrees +/- o
0.25 degrees.
On the road you will find that ideal, but in my opinion the most critical suspension settings are the zero to 0.5 degs negative with 1/8" toe-in on the rear. That seems to be what most defines the road-holding and, more importantly, the handling.

[rich_959]

Thanks Cooperman.

So for road use are you suggesting using the standard bushes on the front arms, instead of the offset ones? And then go for the rear adjustable brackets? I was going to leave the rear standard, but will definitely take your advice if you say it really changes the characteristics. Looks like it makes sense to just buy the full minispares kit?

[Cooperman]

I have never used adjustable rear brackets as I build mainly rally cars when fitting non-standard suspension and I don't trust the strength of the adjustable ones for that sort of use. in fact I even strengthen the standard rear brackets as I have had them start to split vertically down the bend line so I weld a small triangular plate on the top.

To adjust the camber I file the hole in the standard bracket into a vertical slot until the camber is correct. Then I adjust the toe-in by measuring and filing the hole as appropriate in the horizontal plane. When is it correct I use a big flat washer MIG-welded on to hold the setting. If it toes-in too much initially there are some thin shims you can get, or make up your own shims, to sit on the front face of the brackets.

Make sure you get the rear geometry in line with the front.

I always feel that the vendors of 'stuff' try to encourage you to spend unnecessarily a lot of the time (well, they would, wouldn't they!). Super-accurate suspension settings are fine for out-and-out competition, but for normal road driving if you are driving in a way which will show any sort of advantage with this 'spot-on' setting, you will likely soon lose your licence.

The 1.5 neg front arms are absolutely fine - just 'fit & forget'. Use standard inner bushes and it will drive well. The castor is more important and adjustable tie bars are really worthwhile as in addition to permitting accurate setting, they are a hell of a lot stronger too and less liable to bend.