77 replies to this topic

[Steve220]

In fairness i've only been to a few shows, mainly Bingley, and it's unfair to make a biased opinion based on that. However, from seeing the popularity of jumbles, the presence of car on the 1959-2000 classic mini facebook group and projects on here, there is a strong following but maybe not always shown off or represented at the larger shows.

 

Although I was fortunate to display at Bingley this year, i was also saddened to see how the establishment was run and how selfish some of the traders can be. I delivered my car the evening before and was shunned by some traders getting annoyed as I unloaded it round the side. I reminded one of the lads that some of their parts were on my car and it was the reason it wasn't running. I got some lovely comments throughout the day, and people took the time to ask about how i did certain things. I also took the opportunity to ask about their projects and whether they'd show them - I was surprised to hear that they wouldn't because 'they're not to show standard'. It saddened me as each car build has its own story and that, for me, is more important. The tear down was what I can only describe as organised chaos. I was stuck indoors whilst the organisers favoured the stall owners to get their vans in which inherently blocked up the entire exit and I spent an hour waiting for it to clear. It is always going to be difficult at a venue of its size, however Bingley has always been too many traders and not enough cars. I'm hoping to attend more this year (driving it, not towing it) and make a more biased opinion on the scene. I've not been to 2B but hear that gets bigger and bigger each year!

[hazpalmer14]

 

I think the interest is there among kids (assuming you can peel them off their Xbox!), especially when they see a mini. They just rarely have an opportunity to 'meet' a classic car and sit in it. I do a mini evening with our local scout group - I show a video of the Monte Carlo rally as a bit of an introduction, drive the mini into the scout hut (it just about squeezes through the back door), and spend an evening taking them through how a car works. If we want the digital generation of kids to pick up spanners we need to engage with them, and the big car clubs need to do more too. (I appreciate some already do.)

Going off at a bit of a tangent but...

 

I got a carpentry set for Xmas when I was 5 or 6 - real tools, just smaller. Imagine giving a kid that age a saw and a chisel to play with nowadays!

 

 

haha you havent seen my 2 year old daughter. Shes nearly 3 and i let her play with my spanners and screw drivers. My mentality is why not? If i teach her how to use them properly etc and safely thats better then saying no you cant do that its dangerous etc. The other day she was playing with some duplo/lego trucks and went into my tool box and came back with 3 spanners and said she was fixing it. I try and get her to come out with me while i play with the mini so i can get some time on it without upsetting the Mrs example https://www.instagra...g_web_copy_link

[Ethel]

Admit it, you just want someone who can fit a speedo cable on your Mini don't you?

[Bobbins]

In regards to the Mini scene or not, personally I enjoy Mini ownership just for the sake of simply owning and messing with it, but primarily I enjoy driving it.

Edited by Moke Spider, 06 February 2019 - 11:03 PM.

[Spider]

It's just called design in schools today and is an adjunct with art. I understand the policy is that craft skills are only taught if they're needed to realise a bit of a student's design. In reality you're just as likely to see the teacher or technical assistant making stuff for them, the kids don't even have to be present.The rationale is everything is produced by cad/cam so those skills are redundant.

 

 

That's frightening and alarming.

[Cooperman]

The so-called 'Mini Scene' is evolving as has been said above. It is not and will nor decline to a really low level as too many people see the classic Mini as a British icon - and rightly so.

There are very few Minis used as everyday transport these days. The values for original or 'period modified' cars are steadily increasing and it is becoming harder to insure modified cars when the real modifications are declared.

For those on classic insurance with agreed value and a low annual mileage the level of period mods is less important, but certain alterations are not liked by an insurer. As an example, really lowered cars with ultra-wide wheels and 'noise-booster' exhausts are not favoured by insurance companies. Such cars may well not qualify for classic insurance and the mods will seriously increase the premium.

[Jase]

 

I think the interest is there among kids (assuming you can peel them off their Xbox!), especially when they see a mini. They just rarely have an opportunity to 'meet' a classic car and sit in it. I do a mini evening with our local scout group - I show a video of the Monte Carlo rally as a bit of an introduction, drive the mini into the scout hut (it just about squeezes through the back door), and spend an evening taking them through how a car works. If we want the digital generation of kids to pick up spanners we need to engage with them, and the big car clubs need to do more too. (I appreciate some already do.)

Going off at a bit of a tangent but...

 

I got a carpentry set for Xmas when I was 5 or 6 - real tools, just smaller. Imagine giving a kid that age a saw and a chisel to play with nowadays! My metalwork teacher had been an apprentice in a Sheffield steel works. It's just called design in schools today and is an adjunct with art. I understand the policy is that craft skills are only taught if they're needed to realise a bit of a student's design. In reality you're just as likely to see the teacher or technical assistant making stuff for them, the kids don't even have to be present.The rationale is everything is produced by cad/cam so those skills are redundant.

 

How many of those GCSE students will really be industrial designers and how many would benefit from just being able to put a shelf up for themselves? We aren't even filling the vacancies in our stunted construction industry.

 

There has to be something fundamentally important to our intellectual development, given that we are a species distinguished from all others by what we've done since our predecessors fashioned stone tools a couple of million years ago.

 

 

It's not called design in all schools and many do teach the specifc 'craft' skills to manufacture something. Let's be fair how can you expect a 14 year old to design anything if they haven't first experienced the material and processes you need to follow.

 

Design and Technology ( D&T/CDT/DCT/Wood/Metal) whatever we want to call it is probably the most important area in the curriculum yet is the most misunderstood and undervalued area

 

Just my rant :)

[1984mini25]

I’ve only displayed the mini post resto at one mini show, the mini and metro show at gaydon last summer and personally I won’t be bothering in future. And it was only for paying less for pre booking/displaying rather than paying on the gate. I can’t comment on traders as there wasn’t really any there to be fair.

 

But Yes I know they have become part of the mini shows now, but if it wasn’t for a blue mk1 cooper to my right I would have been totally boxed in by bmw minis, But if I'd chosen to pay on the gate I would have been in the mini parking area free of bmws.

 

I was also slightly annoyed by some of the passing comments/shunned soon after arriving of that the mini “was too shiny” (yes I’ll admit it is slightly on the shinier side) mostly from the other bmw owners parked nearby ‘cleaning’ there cars and being out done by a shinier classic. And the only person to ask about the car the entire day was more interested in me paying membership/join there Facebook group.

 

I have however preferred to attend local car meets/local shows where you just turn up and pay a small fee on the gate. One localish one 20 miles away attracted over 1400 vehicles of all types, was £5 if pre booked or £8 on the day (including passengers), or just a fiver each for visitors (mini shows are 3 times that per person) with the money raised (10k this year) used to help local charities and organisations. And I pretty much didn’t get a fee moment to myself from people asking about the car, that they used to have one, how nice it looked, even had one person who upon spotting the rear window sticker used to work next to the dealership from where the car came from when new.  

 

As for the lack of items being advertised on the forum, from my experience it’s just not worth the effort anymore with things selling a lot quicker on eBay with a much wider audience. Although that does have its pitfalls with some buyers.  

Edited by 1984mini25, 05 February 2019 - 07:01 PM.

[mab01uk]

I would recommend any Mini enthusiasts bored by Mini Shows in general to instead attend a show like the annual Bromley Pageant Classic car Show:-

http://www.bromleypa...ey_pageant_home

 

You will see a huge variety of every type of classic vehicle including some Minis and as some have said when you go to a show of purely Minis you often end up walking past many of them with barely a second glance, it is almost like information overload...... However see the same Mini another time parked up on its own somewhere and you would probably take a closer look and chat to the owner if they were around!

Also at general classic car shows if there is any Mini stuff on sale it is often much cheaper or sometimes a rare find, as fewer people know or care what they are looking at!

[mab01uk]

 

 

I think the interest is there among kids (assuming you can peel them off their Xbox!), especially when they see a mini. They just rarely have an opportunity to 'meet' a classic car and sit in it. I do a mini evening with our local scout group - I show a video of the Monte Carlo rally as a bit of an introduction, drive the mini into the scout hut (it just about squeezes through the back door), and spend an evening taking them through how a car works. If we want the digital generation of kids to pick up spanners we need to engage with them, and the big car clubs need to do more too. (I appreciate some already do.)

Going off at a bit of a tangent but...

 

I got a carpentry set for Xmas when I was 5 or 6 - real tools, just smaller. Imagine giving a kid that age a saw and a chisel to play with nowadays! My metalwork teacher had been an apprentice in a Sheffield steel works. It's just called design in schools today and is an adjunct with art. I understand the policy is that craft skills are only taught if they're needed to realise a bit of a student's design. In reality you're just as likely to see the teacher or technical assistant making stuff for them, the kids don't even have to be present.The rationale is everything is produced by cad/cam so those skills are redundant.

 

How many of those GCSE students will really be industrial designers and how many would benefit from just being able to put a shelf up for themselves? We aren't even filling the vacancies in our stunted construction industry.

 

There has to be something fundamentally important to our intellectual development, given that we are a species distinguished from all others by what we've done since our predecessors fashioned stone tools a couple of million years ago.

 

 

It's not called design in all schools and many do teach the specifc 'craft' skills to manufacture something. Let's be fair how can you expect a 14 year old to design anything if they haven't first experienced the material and processes you need to follow.

 

Design and Technology ( D&T/CDT/DCT/Wood/Metal) whatever we want to call it is probably the most important area in the curriculum yet is the most misunderstood and undervalued area

 

Just my rant :)

 

 

When I was at secondary school in the 1960's and 70's we still had Woodwork and Metalwork classes for boys and Cookery for girls. You did both woodwork and metalwork for a year and then chose one of them to specialise in. (I don't remember any boys doing cookery or girls doing wood or metalwork back then even if we had the choice!)

Our workshops were purpose built (early 1960's school buildings) with dedicated teachers with those skills. In metal work we were allowed to wield hammers and an anvil to make chisels out of red hot metal heated by us with tongs in a Blacksmith forge......I can't imagine many schools or parents allowing that today with our modern Health & Safety rules?

Today the UK education system seems geared to sending everyone to University no matter how unsuited they are for it, to study sometimes pointless or obscure subjects with few jobs available at the end even with a degree. Many would be better learning some practical skills instead and going out to work to become the skilled tradesman we need, often working for themselves and making a very good living.

I believe Germany do a much better job when it comes to apprenticeships, vocational subjects and job status for young people who want to learn a practical trade.

Edited by mab01uk, 05 February 2019 - 08:35 PM.

[Ethel]

 

 

I think the interest is there among kids (assuming you can peel them off their Xbox!), especially when they see a mini. They just rarely have an opportunity to 'meet' a classic car and sit in it. I do a mini evening with our local scout group - I show a video of the Monte Carlo rally as a bit of an introduction, drive the mini into the scout hut (it just about squeezes through the back door), and spend an evening taking them through how a car works. If we want the digital generation of kids to pick up spanners we need to engage with them, and the big car clubs need to do more too. (I appreciate some already do.)

Going off at a bit of a tangent but...

 

I got a carpentry set for Xmas when I was 5 or 6 - real tools, just smaller. Imagine giving a kid that age a saw and a chisel to play with nowadays! My metalwork teacher had been an apprentice in a Sheffield steel works. It's just called design in schools today and is an adjunct with art. I understand the policy is that craft skills are only taught if they're needed to realise a bit of a student's design. In reality you're just as likely to see the teacher or technical assistant making stuff for them, the kids don't even have to be present.The rationale is everything is produced by cad/cam so those skills are redundant.

 

How many of those GCSE students will really be industrial designers and how many would benefit from just being able to put a shelf up for themselves? We aren't even filling the vacancies in our stunted construction industry.

 

There has to be something fundamentally important to our intellectual development, given that we are a species distinguished from all others by what we've done since our predecessors fashioned stone tools a couple of million years ago.

 

 

It's not called design in all schools and many do teach the specifc 'craft' skills to manufacture something. Let's be fair how can you expect a 14 year old to design anything if they haven't first experienced the material and processes you need to follow.

 

Design and Technology ( D&T/CDT/DCT/Wood/Metal) whatever we want to call it is probably the most important area in the curriculum yet is the most misunderstood and undervalued area

 

Just my rant :)

 

I do agree with you, my experience has gone from wood & metalwork, both really being mostly about the design work ,to CDT which sensibly merged and expanded it to all materials. Then the craft part was dropped.

 

I've seen year 7&8 kids making a lot of stuff kit form: using jigs to drill holes in laser cut blanks etc. The design element often doesn't go far beyond choosing the paint colour. Quite agree, working materials is the best way to understand their properties, not to mention the concentration, attention to detail and sequential thought processes.

 

I'm sure a lot of the health and safety concerns are valid, but I can't help think we've lost more than the risk with the brazing, tempering and sand casting I can remember doing. Similar with machining - sending a .dxf doesn't teach you much about cutting speeds, feed rates or planning the best sequence of your machining operations.

[parkibob]

I don't necessarily think the mini scene is dying just changing, in truth I haven't been to a mini specific show for a few years now as I was tired of the MINI v mini rows that constantly plagued the discussions at these shows. I now own a Lotus alongside the Classic mini's and tend to go to classic shows for all marques rather than shows for specific marques as the variety of cars, not to mention people, makes for a more all round experience and as such an more enjoyable day.

I found that attending the mini shows when I did that you came across the same cars and on many occasions very little in the way of new stuff on show, at least that was my experience. 

Attending some of the bigger shows these days such as Tatton Park where you can get clubs who bring along a few similar cars means you can still get the mix of different car owners of the same marque and the variety of the expensive car owner mixing and swapping tales with those who have chosen a less expensive route into the classic scene.

 

Classic mini's will always have their place in any Classic car show as for many it was their first taste of motoring, as we all get older and less of us can say that, (although my son who is 26 also had a mini as his first car) then maybe the scene will wane but for now I think it is just morphing and is all the better for it..........in my opinion 

[Chris1992]

A lot of interesting comments here. I'm not entirely sure if it's shrinking, but it's definitely changing...I'm not sure it's for the better though. As someone who is young(ish), loves Minis, and is heavily involved in the modified car scene, I can see from many points of view here. This is all just my opinion though.

 

I've been on this forum for a rather long time now. I still visit daily, but rarely post these days unless I have a maintenance conundrum. The main reason for this is because in the past, my topics related to modifications have been ridiculed or scoffed at by a certain few members who insist that every car should be period correct right down to the last nut and bolt. I can speak for many youngsters when I say that THIS is the reason that young people are starting to edge away from the classic Mini scene. We are occasionally made to feel inferior to those who grew up with these cars, we'd love to put our own spin on them but sometimes feel as though we're not allowed to. 

 

I'd like to make clear that this is a minority of people, as most people I talk to or meet at shows are bloody lovely. Those few bad experiences do put a bad taste in the mouth though...

 

As for the range of parts available, while there does seem to be an increase in sellers and traders, the prices have soared too (as others have said). The other issue is that there is very little variety in the parts on sale. What I mean by this is that you could go to a trade stand and buy as many shiny accessories as you like, and you car will probably still look the same as the one next to you. Spotlights, overriders, Minilites, Stripes, various chrome, etc... Of course there is nothing wrong with that at all, but others like to be creative and think outside of the box. This is where the hardcore concourse enthusiasts will try and crush your dreams lol... "you can't do this", "you can't do that", etc, it get's a bit tiresome after a while.

 

So I (as well as many Mini owners my age) tend to stick to the modified car scene, and it's just excellent to be honest because everyone is so open to creativity and individuality. I go to maybe 10 - 12 shows each summer, and at all of them the variety of cars (old and new, stock and custom) is simply staggering. Another plus side is the awards are based on how interesting and unique a car is, rather than how well you cleaned under your spare wheel... It's just a lot more relaxed, and less (for lack of a better word) 'regimental'. 

 

So to conclude my ramblings, basically the reason young people and general car modifiers are moving away from the Mini scene is because there simply isn't any variety. This is down to the mainstream parts on sale and attitude of those few who would rather every Mini was left alone to become an investment. Just for those curious, this is my car below. it was my first car and I've owned it 9 years. I've restored it from a bare shell twice, and have no intention of selling it mainly due to sentimental value. Some may love it, some may hate it, and some may wish to set fire to their eyeballs after seeing it, but it's an expression of my personality, which is what all Mini's should be. Once we get back to that mentality then the scene will flourish :)

 

 

[CityEPete]

I've got a standard car but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy seeing modified Minis.

It is a bit of a shame when people heavily modify a standard car whilst there are plenty of already messed with ones for a basis.

That said for every tidy mayfair that gets a body kit and deseam mine gets more valuable lol.

[Archived3]

Well said Chris1992

Just to add: it was great to see your car in the mags going against the current norms. The wheel choice is inspired!

Edited by Mrplastic, 06 February 2019 - 11:38 PM.