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Struggling To Get A Start


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#1 Sussex_pete

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 03:44 PM

Got to the point that I would like to get an engine start. Cranks over with good oil pressure, but no sign of a spark on No1 plug. Its the carb engine with electronic dizzy. Checked the wiring diagrams post to confirm if I have connected everything correctly and can't see any mention of this set up. I've got the wiring from the 65DM4 connected to the same coil terminals as the harness wires, so white/blacks together and whites together. Static timed to about two degrees BTDC just to get it running. Will then strobe to five degrees at 1500. But with no spark, that just ain't happening right now!

Any pointers as to where/what I should be checking, please?



#2 cal844

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 04:54 PM

It should start, if you've no spark check that the cap is clean and the carbon brush is in place. Also try a new module

Edited by cal844, 10 March 2019 - 04:55 PM.


#3 Sussex_pete

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 05:42 PM

It should start, if you've no spark check that the cap is clean and the carbon brush is in place. Also try a new module

Cap is brand new. Didn't think about the module. With it being off the road for 8 years, I guess it could be duff now.



#4 ukcooper

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 06:57 PM

engine earth???????



#5 cal844

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 08:11 PM

The engine earth would also stop it sparking but I will assume the OP has no spark at all

#6 Carlos W

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 08:46 PM

Is there a spark from the coil?

#7 Sussex_pete

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 12:23 PM

Is there a spark from the coil?

About to go through a detailed check, before I commit to replacing the module. Just got other things to deal with right now, so won't be on this again for a day or so. Engine earth fitted between flywheel housing and RH inner wing (horn bracket bolt).



#8 Sussex_pete

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 01:06 PM

Checks completed. Changed coil, as I was not happy with original giving impression of being OC across the LT wires. Confirmed I was getting spark at plugs and getting fuel to carb. Then as final check, got No1 cylinder to TDC and checked dizzy position. Not had engine apart, so not expecting to find that rotor arm was 180 out, but it was.

Repositioned dizzy drive according to Haynes manual - its the later type of drive, so started with slot below centre line and horizontal. Dizzy refitted with rotor now pointing to No1, but anticlock movement of dizzy body is restricted by oil pressure gauge T piece.

Still not starting nor even sounding like it wants to, so just wondering if I need to put everyting back as it was and try again.



#9 cal844

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 04:10 PM

Put it back to how it was and try that. It should go if the dizzy drive has been moved

Edited by cal844, 17 March 2019 - 04:11 PM.


#10 Sussex_pete

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 02:27 PM

Third check, went back to basics. Confirmed that No1 is at TDC; dizzy timed to about 11 BTDC according to crank pulley pointer, for static timing. Plugs gapped correctly at 25 thou. Got spark at No1 and fuel going to carb. Turning over on ignition, not even a cough or splutter. Taken plugs out - all wet. So, I take that as fuel going in, but no spark. Really staring to get pee'd off with this car, as now running out of ideas of where to look for faults.



#11 gazza82

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 02:44 PM

When you checked it was at TDC and dizzy timed in, where is the rotor arm pointing? To the segment that goes to plug 1? Just checking you aren't 180 degrees out ..



#12 Dusky

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 11:34 PM

Chances are big your static timing is incorrect with the module. I could never time it accurately. Spin the car over while turning the dizzy.

#13 Matpaul

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 01:53 AM

When you say "Confirmed that No1 is at TDC", would that be on the compression stroke? You mentioned that you hadn't had the engine apart yet found the distributor 180 degrees out, that seems strange to me.

If you have 'wet' plugs, spark and good compression then with the distributor timed correctly (or near enough) it should go.

Hopefully you get it running soon without too much more trouble.



#14 Sussex_pete

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 08:28 AM

When you checked it was at TDC and dizzy timed in, where is the rotor arm pointing? To the segment that goes to plug 1? Just checking you aren't 180 degrees out ..

Dizzy deffo pointing to No1 plug lead. Physically almost vertical and just prior to the upper cap fixing screw.

 

Chances are big your static timing is incorrect with the module. I could never time it accurately. Spin the car over while turning the dizzy.

Yeah, why is it that the there doesn't seem to be a static setting for 65D4 dizzy's? The 11 degree setting is just a guesstimate on my part as it should advance to 5 degrees BTDC at 1500. I would have thought that even if I'm a few degrees out, it would have tried to start.

 

When you say "Confirmed that No1 is at TDC", would that be on the compression stroke? You mentioned that you hadn't had the engine apart yet found the distributor 180 degrees out, that seems strange to me.

If you have 'wet' plugs, spark and good compression then with the distributor timed correctly (or near enough) it should go.

Hopefully you get it running soon without too much more trouble.

Deffo on compression stroke MatPaul. That was the reason behind me going back to basics and looking at valve movement to guarantee it is correct. The 180 error probably came from just looking at piston position rather than confirming compression. Will be out of circulation for the next 5 days so will get back to it middle of next week, hopefully with a fresh mind and maybe an extra brain cell to assist!



#15 Sussex_pete

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 01:29 PM

Good news to report, in that the Mini fired up and ran this morning. Problem appears to be two-fold. First was some potentially stale fuel, although where it came from I'm not sure. Secondly and the major culprit was that my initial timing ended up being about 45 degrees out! Dizzy movement was restricted by the OP switch in one direction and the module on the dizzy body fouling wires on the starter solenoid in the other. Ended up in fitting the dizzy drive gear one tooth out of the correct position. Just got to get the engine warm and strobe the timing to fix it and I can start thinking about getting it MOT'd and back to its owner in Northampton.

Thanks for all the help and advice along the way, but if someone else talks about overhauling a late model classic Mini, I might just have to say NO!


Edited by Sussex_pete, 12 April 2019 - 01:30 PM.





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