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Is This Wheel Alignment Ok?


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#1 M0U5EY

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 06:38 PM

Hi guys,

Last week my dad took my mini in to have a wheel alignment done as we haven't done one since we bought it (2+ years ago), had changed the wheel setup and the wheel was about 10-20 degrees left when going stright. The link is the sheet that they gave us and it doesn't seem like much has changed? Is this just the nature of the suspension or have kwik fit just been lazy and rip off as usual? As far as I know, the only change thats been made to the suspension is hi/lo suspension and its running 13 inch deep dish minilites. On another note, the steering wheel angle still hasn't been fixed, is that something they do or is that more of a mechanics job? From what i've read on here it could have jumped a spline or something like that?

Thanks

 

https://imgur.com/BdUL370

 



#2 absx2

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 07:20 PM

It looks to be all over the place.

Do you have adjustable tie bars and bottom arms etc. ?



#3 M0U5EY

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 07:22 PM

It looks to be all over the place.

Do you have adjustable tie bars and bottom arms etc. ?

To be perfectly honest im not sure, i'll go and have a look!



#4 absx2

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 07:30 PM

The front caster and the rear toe out on the OS is dangerous so it needs sorting as soon as possible .



#5 M0U5EY

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 07:34 PM

Ok just had a little look at the front setup and here are some pics, looks like the front tie bars are adjustable but not the bottom arms?

 

https://imgur.com/5vfCiaN



#6 M0U5EY

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 07:36 PM

The front caster and the rear toe out on the OS is dangerous so it needs sorting as soon as possible .

Can I ask why? Not disputing just want to learn!



#7 jonsharman

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 07:38 PM

The +ve caster on the front right is wildly excessive and is the likely culprit. From memory it should be +2' - +4' and certainly no more than +5'.

Given the scope of what a KwikFit Fitter can do with a Mini they have sorted the toe on the front as it's just adjusting the tie rods. As for the rest, you need some expert geometry and fairly swiftly.

#8 Wiggy

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 07:39 PM

Cars can swap ends and handle unpredictability with poor geometry.

#9 M0U5EY

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 07:42 PM

The +ve caster on the front right is wildly excessive and is the likely culprit. From memory it should be +2' - +4' and certainly no more than +5'.

Given the scope of what a KwikFit Fitter can do with a Mini they have sorted the toe on the front as it's just adjusting the tie rods. As for the rest, you need some expert geometry and fairly swiftly.

Where could I get this done? Im in the south east if it helps



#10 absx2

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 07:50 PM

To keep it simple the caster angle effects how quickly the steering can self center, the more caster you have the quicker the steering can pull straight up to a point, 3.5 degrees is about right at a guess. The caster has to be exactly the same on both sides or the steering will wonder and be unpredictable from one side to the next and the car will weave  under braking and acceleration.

Your caster is dangerously out and the car must feel terrible to steer.

You also have one rear wheel with outward toe. so on a bend the rear of the car would try to steer outwards instead of following the bend. Both rear wheels need to toe in 1/16" on one inch to be safe.



#11 M0U5EY

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 07:56 PM

To keep it simple the caster angle effects how quickly the steering can self center, the more caster you have the quicker the steering can pull straight up to a point, 3.5 degrees is about right at a guess. The caster has to be exactly the same on both sides or the steering will wonder and be unpredictable from one side to the next and the car will weave  under braking and acceleration.

Your caster is dangerously out and the car must feel terrible to steer.

You also have one rear wheel with outward toe. so on a bend the rear of the car would try to steer outwards instead of following the bend. Both rear wheels need to toe in 1/16" on one inch to be safe.

ok that makes sense, it's my first car so wouldn't really know much else, will definitely have to get it re-looked at then



#12 jonsharman

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 08:01 PM

Caster is the steering pivot axis being angled forwards (or backwards) as viewed from the wheel-face. Try an imagine a straight line drawn from the centre of the bottom ball joint pin straight up through the same point on the top pin. If that line points toward the front of the car from the vertical you have +ve caster (usually good), backwards you have negative (not good).

Think of a shopping trolly. As you push it forwards the wheel always sits slightly behind the pivot point at the top and this has the effect of giving positive caster - the trolly tends to go forwards in a straight line and is easier to turn and keep under control. Now pull the same trolly backwards - the pivot moves behind the wheel and all of a sudden the trolly is more difficult to control and less inclined to go straight. Thus it's advisable to have a bit of positive caster as it helps keep the vehicle in a straight line and to return the wheels/tyres to a forward direction when not turning. This is usually anywhere between 2' - 4' although the more you add does require more steering effort. Most importantly, however, the +ve caster should be the same on both sides.

North of 11' on the right side alone has the effect of constantly pushing the weight over that wheel and at 9' more than the left side it will be steering you in any direction but the one you want to go in!

Cause is more difficult to determine but I'd be looking at the state of the bottom arms first - bent, misshapen etc.

#13 M0U5EY

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 08:05 PM

Caster is the steering pivot axis being angled forwards (or backwards) as viewed from the wheel-face. Try an imagine a straight line drawn from the centre of the bottom ball joint pin straight up through the same point on the top pin. If that line points toward the front of the car from the vertical you have +ve caster (usually good), backwards you have negative (not good).

Think of a shopping trolly. As you push it forwards the wheel always sits slightly behind the pivot point at the top and this has the effect of giving positive caster - the trolly tends to go forwards in a straight line and is easier to turn and keep under control. Now pull the same trolly backwards - the pivot moves behind the wheel and all of a sudden the trolly is more difficult to control and less inclined to go straight. Thus it's advisable to have a bit of positive caster as it helps keep the vehicle in a straight line and to return the wheels/tyres to a forward direction when not turning. This is usually anywhere between 2' - 4' although the more you add does require more steering effort. Most importantly, however, the +ve caster should be the same on both sides.

North of 11' on the right side alone has the effect of constantly pushing the weight over that wheel and at 9' more than the left side it will be steering you in any direction but the one you want to go in!

Cause is more difficult to determine but I'd be looking at the state of the bottom arms first - bent, misshapen etc.

Makes sense thanks! Do you think this could possibly be the cause of the wheel being around 20 degrees left when going straight?



#14 jonsharman

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 08:17 PM

In an ideal world you would want both sides to have exactly the same +ve caster but a slight variance is (~0.5') is OK. This would mean the car would pull to the side with the least +ve caster which, in your case, is most certainly the left. Thus I'd be expecting you to need to steer to the right to stay straight...?

The steering wheel could be fitted incorrectly as a cheap alternative to good geometry but I'd get the other problems looked at first.

#15 M0U5EY

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 08:19 PM

In an ideal world you would want both sides to have exactly the same +ve caster but a slight variance is (~0.5') is OK. This would mean the car would pull to the side with the least +ve caster which, in your case, is most certainly the left. Thus I'd be expecting you to need to steer to the right to stay straight...?

The steering wheel could be fitted incorrectly as a cheap alternative to good geometry but I'd get the other problems looked at first.

Hmm ok, it's an issue that has only just come up (after the engine seals were done if i remember correctly) so I doubt any of the steering was adjusted? I think i'm having to steer left (wheel is pointed left) which sound like double trouble...






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