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Historic Status And Supercharged?


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#1 Bike1769

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 08:47 PM

Hi

I have a 1973 1000cc which is currently classed as a historic vehicle. I believe that i can increase the size of the engine as long as it's an a series without effecting the status, Does anyone have any experience of adding a supercharger with regards to keeping the mini a historic?

Thanks.

John.



#2 imack

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 09:23 PM

I presume you're talking about keeping it mot exempt, I don't think you've got any problems with exemption if you supercharge it.

#3 Bike1769

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 10:24 PM

I presume you're talking about keeping it mot exempt, I don't think you've got any problems with exemption if you supercharge it.

 

Yeah. The car is fine and should go through a test  I just like the idea of driving a historic. 



#4 Homersimpson

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 10:43 AM

I think anything that you do that is either period correct or is a minor bolt on mod (like your supercharger) is fine, major changes (like serious body mods) arn't.

 

IMHO things like wheels, arches, seats, engine mods to an engine of the same type as originally fitted (or fitted to the range at some point) are fine.

 

I'm not sure where something like a Triumph Stag with a rover V8 conversion would sit?

 

I also assume that this affects shortened minis and cabriolet conversions.



#5 imack

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 11:46 AM

I think anything that you do that is either period correct or is a minor bolt on mod (like your supercharger) is fine, major changes (like serious body mods) arn't.

IMHO things like wheels, arches, seats, engine mods to an engine of the same type as originally fitted (or fitted to the range at some point) are fine.

I'm not sure where something like a Triumph Stag with a rover V8 conversion would sit?

I also assume that this affects shortened minis and cabriolet conversions.


Don’t think you'd get away with a stag with a rover V8 but you may be able to get away with a rover V8 in an mg or try as they were factory options.

#6 Bike1769

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 04:42 PM

I think anything that you do that is either period correct or is a minor bolt on mod (like your supercharger) is fine, major changes (like serious body mods) arn't.

IMHO things like wheels, arches, seats, engine mods to an engine of the same type as originally fitted (or fitted to the range at some point) are fine.

I'm not sure where something like a Triumph Stag with a rover V8 conversion would sit?


I also assume that this affects shortened minis and cabriolet conversions.

That's the impression I got. I know Shorrock chargers were used years ago, so can't see why fitting one wouldn't be seen as a period mod, just wondered if the make of charger would make a difference?


Edited by Bike1769, 20 April 2019 - 05:03 PM.


#7 Homersimpson

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 06:17 PM

I found this:

 

https://assets.publi...ge-guidance.pdf

 

Its interesting that it talks about the basic engine but not carburation etc. so I would take that as mods to the engine ancillaries are ok as long as they don't change its basic characteristic (i.e. its still basically an A series).

 

Interestingly it mentions that alterations to the type or methods of suspension constitutes a change, does a change from rubber to coil springs fall in this category?



#8 imack

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 06:32 PM

I found this:

https://assets.publi...ge-guidance.pdf

Its interesting that it talks about the basic engine but not carburation etc. so I would take that as mods to the engine ancillaries are ok as long as they don't change its basic characteristic (i.e. its still basically an A series).

Interestingly it mentions that alterations to the type or methods of suspension constitutes a change, does a change from rubber to coil springs fall in this category?


What if you convert from hyrolastic to rubber? It's a change in the 'method' of suspension, while minis had both its not the Method That particular car left the factory with.

#9 Homersimpson

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 08:16 PM

 

I found this:

https://assets.publi...ge-guidance.pdf

Its interesting that it talks about the basic engine but not carburation etc. so I would take that as mods to the engine ancillaries are ok as long as they don't change its basic characteristic (i.e. its still basically an A series).

Interestingly it mentions that alterations to the type or methods of suspension constitutes a change, does a change from rubber to coil springs fall in this category?


What if you convert from hyrolastic to rubber? It's a change in the 'method' of suspension, while minis had both its not the Method That particular car left the factory with.

 

Now thats an interesting one, the guidance makes it clear that other engine options for the car are allowed as a swap (i.e. changing a 1000cc form a 1275cc or say a 1.3 4 cylinder capri to a 3.0 V6 engine, the suspension is clear that a change in the method of suspension from original is not allowed.

 

I reckon if you asked for clarification they would say the same as for the engines, i.e. if it was available on the car as original but not on that model year its allowable but thats not what the guidance says at present.

 

Its a veritable minefield thats clearly been dreamed up by someone who doesn't understand the classic car scene.

 

As another example, a lot of MK2 jags have a rack and pinion steering conversion, they have been around since the early 90's at least, according to the guidance thats not allowed and therefore the car needs an MOT.

 

A lot of this stuff will never get picked up, its just when something goes wrong and there is a massive accident and an inquiry where it gets picked up that they will clamp down.



#10 Homersimpson

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 08:18 PM

As an aside i'm completely against MOT exemption, I think its was totally unnecessary as no one was pushing for it that i'm aware of.  Most of the classic cars have a lot of safety related items that won't now get checked and how many people can honestly say they will thoroughly check their car each year?

 

Even if you do how many have a rolling road to test the brakes?



#11 DeadSquare

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 09:33 PM

I assume that it was deemed more convenient to exempt cars that cannot pass the emission test, than to have two standards with drivers saying " that one passed a test, why didn't mine ?"



#12 Homersimpson

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Posted 21 April 2019 - 06:57 AM

I assume that it was deemed more convenient to exempt cars that cannot pass the emission test, than to have two standards with drivers saying " that one passed a test, why didn't mine ?"

There has been an emission test cut off in the MOT for years and as cars get newer again there are change points so the problem still remains.

 

To me it is a ridiculous idea with no merits, all it will mean is that some people with no mechanical knowledge who own these cars will drive them around when they are unsafe as they won't get it checked as 'I only use it a couple of times a year' or people who have no idea of mechanical work will bodge them up so they can keep using them.

 

One of the drivers for the change was that historic vehicles are involved in very few accidents, this is because A, they don't generally get used much compared to normal cars and B they are checked once a year to confirm they are safe.

 

Now they have removed B it seems only a matter of time until a big accident occurs and then the entire classic car movement and being able to modify and work on your own cars is called into question.



#13 maccers

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:51 AM

I've got a 1976 Mini 1000 as per the logbook. Its actually a 1293cc running s/c with custom fuel injection. It was a 1275 when I bought it, running twin carbs, and I decided to do a s/c build and increase capacity. It still says Mini 1000 on the logbook as model name, but 1293 cc size. Its tax exempt now, I was never sure if it was mot exempt due to the engine swap from original 1976 spec. I'll still get it mot'd even though it only does around 500 miles a year if that. I've added safety features - front and rear seat belts and fuel cut off switch etc. The emession check is a visual one based on  year. They only ever pick up on no rear fog light / reverse light...!



#14 johnv

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 12:58 PM

agree .. MOT exemption is a stupid idea, and probably totally divisive .. next there will be a ruling that cars classed as 'historic' will only be allowed on the roads on weekends and bank holidays .. or something .. I'm keeping my minis MOT'd .. it's clearly a good idea for someone to take a good look at it on ramps once a year anyway 



#15 HUBBA.HUBBA

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 12:29 PM

Its fine, mines a 1972 mini 1000 with a 1330 supercharged motor and it's ok. Fly's through the emissions too (not that it needs them)




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