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Calling London Mini Owners: Challenging The Ulez Charge


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#1 Screwdriver

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 07:55 PM

I recently wrote to the ULEZ office to ask why Classic Minis were charged. Their response will likely be that the Mini wasn't Euro 4 compliant. How could it be? The Mini didn't live to see Euro 4 standards implemented.

 

Upon further review, EURO 4 has the following requirements for Petrol vehicles:

 

CO - 1.0 g/km

THC- 0.1 g/km

NOx - 0.08 g/km

 

When you compare this to the emissions data published, it would appear that injection Minis (at minimum) meet these:

 

http://www.emissions...ini-cooper-13cc

 

Wanted to check in with other Mini owners if there is appetite to challenge the TFL on this and seek an exemption for the classic Mini?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#2 pusb

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 08:06 PM

Interesting, so had the Mini still been in production in 2005, it would've met emissions requirements?



#3 DeadSquare

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 08:24 PM

I think that the VW fiasco has blighted much chance of anyone taking the risk of saying "Yes", but someone ought to try.

 

These days, laws are not drafted on "Reasonable Proof".  Before EU showed the way, provided that your car would meet the requirements, if you didn't pay, it was up to the authorities to prove that you needed to pay.   Now they are draconian and all they need to do is prove that you haven't paid.



#4 cp2708

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 08:48 AM

Good luck with that. I wrote to Mr Khan, asking where he could have possibly got the information used in his 'Thousands of people are dying every year due to London's toxic air' statement he was peddling. They never got back to me, strangely enough. It's a money making scam, the levels were dropping before it went live as the busses and trucks are having scrubbers fitted and older diesel vans/cars are being replaced. 

 

To be honest I do feel bad (enough to turn it off if stuck in traffic), using it as it does stink bad compared to modern vehicles, even though it is running perfectly and is well below the MOT exhaust gas limits for a pre catalysed 1990 car. It's just everything else is so much cleaner now. Despite what Sadiq saying. 



#5 cooperd70

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 12:35 PM

Screwdriver,

I'd be up for it if my car was a cat injection...sadly a 1990 998 carb...looks like emissions data doesn't go back that far ☹️

#6 Screwdriver

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 12:47 PM

Given how small the Mini's motor is, it's no surprise that the emissions levels are below Euro 4 levels. I heard back from the TFL who directed me as follows. As you can imagine, my V5C doesn't have NOx emission values on it, which means I have to source Rover Mini's Conformity Certificate. 

 

Anyone have any leads? Once obtained, should be an easy way for some owners to save alot of £ via an exemption. 

 

 

 Petrol Vehicles must be Euro 4 or have NOx emissions equal to, or less than, 0.08 grams per kilometre (As proven above, the Mini is lower than this threshold and therefore exempt).

 

If you can provide us with a copy of your vehicle registration document (V5C) that contains the Nitrogen Oxides (NOx) value and Particulate matter (PM) value (if diesel), we can confirm the compliance status of your vehicle. Please check that the NOx and if applicable the PM value is recorded on the V5c, usually these are detailed in sections V.3 and V.5 respectively.

 

If these values are not recorded on the V5c you will need to provide a copy of the vehicle's Conformity Certificate which you can obtain from the vehicle manufacturer. Alternatively you may wish to contact the vehicle manufacturer's homologation department. They will need to provide you with a letter signed by a named individual from the homologation department which contains the following information

- vehicle registration mark (VRM)
- vehicle identification number (VIN)
- euro standard the vehicle was manufactured to - Fuel Type
- Nitrogen Oxides (NOx) value
and
- Particulate matter (PM) value (if diesel)



#7 cooperd70

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 12:51 PM

As Rover Group are no longer with us that seems to be me out :(

#8 DeadSquare

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 01:53 PM

Quick, grab "www.Rover Homologation Department .co.uk"



#9 mab01uk

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 06:29 PM

Historic vehicles and ULEZ

"You can apply to stop paying vehicle tax if your vehicle was built more than 40 years ago. This date moves forward on a 40-year rolling system. Assuming the rules stay the same, when the ULEZ launches in April 2019, vehicles built before 1979 will be eligible to apply for historic vehicle tax class.

All vehicles that have a historic vehicle tax class will be exempt from the ULEZ. This tax class excludes any vehicle used commercially (for example, coffee vans or street food vans).

In line with the existing LEZ discount all vehicles registered before 1 January 1973 will be exempt from the ULEZ, regardless of commercial use or otherwise.

If your vehicle meets the above criteria and is registered in the UK, it is automatically exempt and you don't need to register with us. If your vehicle meets the above criteria but is registered outside the UK, you are also exempt, but will need to register with us."

https://tfl.gov.uk/m...-and-exemptions


Edited by mab01uk, 23 April 2019 - 06:31 PM.


#10 Screwdriver

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 06:37 PM

The above would apply to vehicles older than 1980. For newer vehicles, the conformity certificate should be with BMW Mini. I'll circle back if I can find something. Thanks!  



#11 cooperd70

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 08:15 PM

I had seen that mab01uk.  It'll be a while before mines exempt (a 1990) and quite very possibly the goal posts will have changed by then.  Will be looking for a boring modern (ULEZ compliant) car, but just don't know of any classy modern cars (i'd even contemplate an estate) that doesn't have an 'idiot screen' display fixed to the dash, but that has something about it than being just modern and dull.  Any suggestions welcomed!

 

Until then think I'll be sticking to cycling Mon-Fri and getting the car out of the smoke on sunny/dry weekends.



#12 cp2708

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 06:56 PM

I had seen that mab01uk.  It'll be a while before mines exempt (a 1990) and quite very possibly the goal posts will have changed by then.  Will be looking for a boring modern (ULEZ compliant) car, but just don't know of any classy modern cars (i'd even contemplate an estate) that doesn't have an 'idiot screen' display fixed to the dash, but that has something about it than being just modern and dull.  Any suggestions welcomed!

 

Until then think I'll be sticking to cycling Mon-Fri and getting the car out of the smoke on sunny/dry weekends.

 

My 15 year old BMW 325ci is allowed in, and is in my opinion a bit of a sweet spot in the development of the 3 series, with just enough electronic gizmos to help with emmisions/stability control/climate control/safety etc but not over the top nanny state cars like the newer ones. The un-turbocharged straight 6 is one of the best automotive sounds around too I reckon. It depends whether you like BMWs I suppose!

 

I'm lucky that I live just outside the North Circular road so I can avoid the ULEZ even when it expands in a couple of years, until it expands again anyway!  



#13 mab01uk

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 06:58 PM

Surprised to find my 2002 R50 MINI is ULEZ compliant......ideal if you want a cheap, fun to drive, ULEZ compliant car!

 

Check your vehicle:-

Find out if your vehicle meets the emissions standards required for the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ) and/or the Low Emission Zone (LEZ).

https://tfl.gov.uk/m...r-vehicle-35896


Edited by mab01uk, 24 April 2019 - 06:59 PM.


#14 cooperd70

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 05:37 AM

Thanks for the recommendations guys. The BM sounds interesting...will be taking a look into that.

As for the BINI I'm just not keen on the circular dials all over the dash...just looks like it was designed for a child. If it had a more trad looking dash it'd already be on my short list.

#15 mab01uk

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 06:19 PM

 A similar letter has been sent out to Classic Bikers:-

 

Loophole means older motorbikes may still qualify for ULEZ exemption:-

https://www.bikerand...ulez-exemption/


Edited by mab01uk, 25 April 2019 - 06:20 PM.





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