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Calling London Mini Owners: Challenging The Ulez Charge


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#61 Quinlan minor

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Posted 01 January 2020 - 08:43 AM

I have a '98 MPi and live on the edge of the '21 proposed extension to the Zone, so I'm extremely interested in how this shapes up.

 

If getting the MPi/SPis confirmed as Euro 4 compliant and therefore exempted is going to cost to set up, I'd happily chip in to an application that gets it done. Hopefully, I wouldn't be the only one prepared to do so.

 

I'd kinda hope that the London Mini Clubs might be persuaded to co-ordinate an effort to do this.

 

For those who "live in the sticks", this stuff is coming your way, so better get prepared. If we can establish a Mini exemption with Tfl, it's going to make getting an exemption with the ones set up near you that much easier.



#62 cooperd70

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Posted 07 January 2020 - 01:49 PM

Update: Just received my FOI request from TfL...the only useful part of their replay was:

"When we update a vehicle record to make it compliant with the T-Charge or ULEZ we only record the vehicle registration and not the make and model of the vehicle. We therefore do not hold this information."

So they have no idea if any later model of Mini has been granted compliancy to ULEZ.

So unless someone wants to pay £130 for an ICOE from https://www.dvlaadvi...f_emissions.htm to submit to TfL we have come to a brick wall again.

Was hoping for better news than that. Darn it.

#63 Quinlan minor

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Posted 07 January 2020 - 02:42 PM

I will pursue this with LSMOC. I think it's best if we coordinate an approach to TfL so that we can get a "class exemption" from the ICOE Certificate, initially.

£130 is less than 11 days worth of charges, but it seems crazy to make each MPi go through the check.

Does anyone have an ex-Japanese one? Did it have any Emissions Certification?



#64 Quincy Sparks

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 09:59 AM

Interesting thread. Has anyone been in touch with https://smallcarbigcity.com ? They're running a fleet of mostly '90s minis in London, with one '74 in the fleet - which you could assume won't be exempt on historic grounds as it's used commercially.

Maybe they're just building the ULEZ cost into their hire charge, which they probably already do with the Congestion Charge, but they might have some useful info or be a source of support for some of the ideas in the thread.



#65 beardylondon

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 10:41 AM

I could be wrong, but I think they would be exempt from both congestion charge and ULEZ because their fleet are technically Taxis.

 

Interesting thread. Has anyone been in touch with https://smallcarbigcity.com ? They're running a fleet of mostly '90s minis in London, with one '74 in the fleet - which you could assume won't be exempt on historic grounds as it's used commercially.

Maybe they're just building the ULEZ cost into their hire charge, which they probably already do with the Congestion Charge, but they might have some useful info or be a source of support for some of the ideas in the thread.



#66 Quinlan minor

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 06:48 PM

Interesting thread. Has anyone been in touch with https://smallcarbigcity.com ? They're running a fleet of mostly '90s minis in London, with one '74 in the fleet - which you could assume won't be exempt on historic grounds as it's used commercially.

Maybe they're just building the ULEZ cost into their hire charge, which they probably already do with the Congestion Charge, but they might have some useful info or be a source of support for some of the ideas in the thread.

Good idea! I'll give them a call, tomorrow.



#67 cooperd70

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 06:20 AM


Interesting thread. Has anyone been in touch with https://smallcarbigcity.com ? They're running a fleet of mostly '90s minis in London, with one '74 in the fleet - which you could assume won't be exempt on historic grounds as it's used commercially.
Maybe they're just building the ULEZ cost into their hire charge, which they probably already do with the Congestion Charge, but they might have some useful info or be a source of support for some of the ideas in the thread.

Good idea! I'll give them a call, tomorrow.

👍👍 Let us know how you get on!

#68 Quinlan minor

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 10:47 AM

I had a very interesting conversation with them, this morning.

Unfortunately, for the present, they are being charged on all the Minis in their fleet.

They gave me some good contacts and are very interested in finding a way to exempt all Minis to which this charge should not apply.



#69 cooperd70

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 12:11 PM

Looks like paying for an ICOE would be the way forward (see links in previous posts), but then it would have to be a payment for a members SPI and a payment for anothers MPI. Going on that basis if either or both received exemption when the ICOE was sent to TfL in an application for exemption that could be an argument to put to TfL to exempt all Minis of either type.

My mini is a carb'ed 1990, otherwise I'd have already paid for an ICOE.

On the ICOE front I had previously contacted the company and they just need details to be provided on a car in question to obtain/create an ICOE. The car does not need to go to a testing centre.

#70 Quinlan minor

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 10:54 AM

Position update:

 

TfL's position:

 

"Compliance with the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ) is based on the vehicle’s emissions performance at type-approval (i.e. when it is new). For a petrol vehicle, the requirement is that it has NOx emissions not exceeding 0.08g/km when measured over the type 1 emissions test at the time of type approval. That is equivalent to Euro 4 for a petrol car, but a number of Euro 3 petrol cars also meet that standard, although the emissions are not always recorded on the V5C (which we accept as proof). An alternative would be a type-approval certificate of conformity or a letter from the homologation department of the vehicle manufacturer to confirm the emissions performance.

 

If the vehicle is altered, it can no longer be assumed to have emissions as recorded at type-approval. The only way to prove compliance would be to have the vehicle tested on a chassis dynamometer over the type-approval type 1 test. This is nothing like MOT testing and not something that VOSA can verify. The vehicle would need to be tested at an emissions laboratory accredited for type-approval testing (such as MIRA or Millbrook for example)", (cost approximately £3,000 per vehicle).

"If you decided to follow this route, I would advise that you agree the details of the required testing with TfL in advance before entering any expenditure."

 

I'm still trying to find if there's any other way round this and I'll let you know what I find.

 

 

 



#71 Screwdriver

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 12:57 AM

[email protected]

 

Your best shot is Lindsay who is the registrar for what's left of MG Rover. As official signatory, she can provide a recognized document that TFL will have to respect. She will struggle to find emissions data though...






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