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Mpi Not Starting, Not Turning Over


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#1 Stuworx1

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 08:44 PM

Hi all,

First post here, more of an owner than an enthusiast, hence only joining when I have a problem!

I know there are many threads about mpi's not starting, and I have read them. From them I have done a few checks/tests, but the car will still not turnover. Im now looking for guidance for my next steps.

So, the car is used infrequently and stored outside under a cover. On most occasions we use a booster on the battery to get it started.

A week or so ago we went through the usual routine of attaching the booster pack, but when i tried to start it. I tried several times and I'm sure on just one occasion it did crank over, but then nothing.

I decided that the battery had had it. Its several years old and drained, charged and boosted too many times. The guy at the battery shop confirmed it was no good (obviously!).

I installed the new battery, along with a twisting disconnect on the negative (my thinking being we would disconnect the battery when not used so we only deal with natural discharge?). The disconnect tool seems to work as the immobiliser light is on and off when it should and shouldn't be.

However, the car still doesnt turn over.

The fuel pump primes.
SRS light goes out.
New battery appears to work as headlights and other electrics work. Although, I borrowed a multimeter from work and the battery was reading 12v, I was expecting higher?
I've pressed the fuel cut off button.
I've replaced the battery in the keyfob.
I've check the 30w fuses under the bonnet.

What would be the next check?

Thanks in advance guys.

Stuart.

#2 Wiggy

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 09:00 PM

So, the immobiliser light is off.

Turn the key, dash lights come on.

Go to start and absolutely nothing happens? No click, nowt.

#3 RawlinsGTR

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 09:02 PM

Stuart,

 

Following on from what you've done already, I'd check to see if your starter motor is getting power when you turn the key to start up.

 

If your starter motor is getting power (put the positive of the multimeter on the stud on the starter motor where the thick cable connects to it and the negative of the multimeter on a suitable earth point) then your starter motor may not be working properly.

 

The fact that the fuel pump primes rules out most MPi specific issues, such as a faulty crank signal etc.

 

Simon

 

Edit: Another way to check if its the starter motor is to try bump starting the car...


Edited by RawlinsGTR, 30 April 2019 - 09:03 PM.


#4 Stuworx1

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 06:27 PM

So, the immobiliser light is off.

Turn the key, dash lights come on.

Go to start and absolutely nothing happens? No click, nowt.


Correct.

#5 Wiggy

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 06:47 PM

Check and clean battery connections, battery earth, engine earth strap, starter motor connections, ECU earth.

I've seen it before, albeit on an RX8. A loose connection to the starter. All electrics worked until you went to start it. Then nothing.

#6 Stuworx1

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 06:51 PM

Stuart,
 
Following on from what you've done already, I'd check to see if your starter motor is getting power when you turn the key to start up.
 
If your starter motor is getting power (put the positive of the multimeter on the stud on the starter motor where the thick cable connects to it and the negative of the multimeter on a suitable earth point) then your starter motor may not be working properly.
 
The fact that the fuel pump primes rules out most MPi specific issues, such as a faulty crank signal etc.
 
Simon
 
Edit: Another way to check if its the starter motor is to try bump starting the car...


Made an half arsed attempt to read the volts on the starter motor, will try again when I have more time and remove the grill.

I only thought bumping it was if the battery wasn't working accordingly, I have whacked a starter motor before?

#7 Stuworx1

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 06:53 PM

Check and clean battery connections, battery earth, engine earth strap, starter motor connections, ECU earth.

I've seen it before, albeit on an RX8. A loose connection to the starter. All electrics worked until you went to start it. Then nothing.


Thanks, I'll check those over when I have some time.

#8 Stuworx1

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 07:00 PM

Just another thing to add, hopefully to rule it out as a cause...

The fuel gauge is on the red and was prior to the car not starting, but the gauge is approx. quarter tank out. Meaning when we fill up, the gauge shows 3/4 ish full.

I just dont know how long (miles) its been on the red??

If the tank was empty, would the fuel pump still prime but not start. I always thought the car would still try turn over.

Thanks for the help so far.

Stuart.

#9 Wiggy

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 07:05 PM

Yeah, she'd still turn over.

I'm sure it's nothing serious.

Does the immobiliser arm OK? Indicators flash three times. Light on the dash illuminates.

Edited by Wiggy, 01 May 2019 - 07:09 PM.


#10 Stuworx1

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 07:48 PM

Not that we ever set the alarm, but yes I've tested it since I put new batteries in the fob.

The immobiliser just sets itself, after ignition turn off.

I think I heard a click when we tried to turn it over, it came from the engine bay, close to the bulkhead, drivers side.

Is this expected?

#11 RawlinsGTR

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 10:22 PM

I only thought bumping it was if the battery wasn't working accordingly, I have whacked a starter motor before?

 

You bump it if the battery is flat because the battery doesn't have enough charge to power the starter motor to turn the engine (getting the car rolling and then putting it into gear causes the engine to turn without needing the starter motor to do it). In the case of the battery being fine, but the starter motor not working/ getting power, bumping it would achieve the same result. Sometimes if a starter motor sits for a long period of time it can stick (the motor inside seizes up), and whacking it can break it free.

 

I think I heard a click when we tried to turn it over, it came from the engine bay, close to the bulkhead, drivers side.

Is this expected?

 

That sound will be a relay (mechanical switch) clicking, that's normal. 

 

 

Check and clean battery connections, battery earth, engine earth strap, starter motor connections, ECU earth.

I've seen it before, albeit on an RX8. A loose connection to the starter. All electrics worked until you went to start it. Then nothing.

 

I agree with Wiggy here. I think from everything you've told us, it's clear that the car has battery power, but for some reason the starter motor is not turning the engine over when you turn the key. So we just need to find out why!


Edited by RawlinsGTR, 01 May 2019 - 10:26 PM.


#12 viz139

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 08:52 AM

When you turn the ignition on you should hear clicks from the relay box on top of the servo , these are the main power relay and fuel pump priming. Allow a few seconds for the fuel pump to prime , than each time you turn the ingnition to start you should hear the starter relay ( also in this box) click. If it does than alarm and ECU are OK. if not check fuse F12 that is on the feed from the ingnition switch to the relay coil. If all that is ok check for 12v on the Brown/Red wire at the starter while somebody holds the key in the start position.



#13 Stuworx1

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 02:46 PM

I’ve taken off the grill to check any loose connections, I have found one which isn’t connected to anything, but cannot find any obvious points it should be connected to. I’ve attached the photos.

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#14 Stuworx1

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 03:09 PM

We also tried to bump it, it did lurch when I raised the clutch, but failed to start.

#15 RawlinsGTR

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 07:53 PM

Stuart,

 

That plug looks like one of the plugs for the front spot lamps - in your photo the holes in the front panel where the spot lamps would be mounted have grommets in so I'm assuming you don't have spot lamps (or the middle fog lamps) fitted?

 

How many times did you try to bump start it? Just the once?

 

Have you checked for 12V at the starter motor whilst someone turns the ignition key to start yet? In the second photo you can see the point where you should be checking for 12V - on the end of the gold colour cylinder (this is the starter motor solenoid) where a few wires will be connected:

 

47783315162_5d004e860d.jpg






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