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Red Spot Cones And Hilos Ride Comfort


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#16 nicklouse

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Posted 29 July 2019 - 08:04 AM

I have recently swapped out near new standard cones for the red spots
I have Gaz adjustable shocks and Hilo’s
Rideheight set same as before
My wheels are 13x7 and they would rub on soortsoack arches at track days even with shocks stiffened up
With the red spots I was able to soften the shocks off and had no rubbing at all
They really reduce body roll
Normal road driving feels slightly smoother as shocks are set softer

Shocks don’t stop body roll. And when set too stiff can induce rubbing.

#17 ads7

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Posted 29 July 2019 - 02:09 PM

Yes the car corners really flat, much improvement in that aspect. My wife would prefer softer initial bump absorption but may get used to the ride over time, I'm not so bothered !

#18 ads7

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 01:36 PM

I've done some bench tests a while back on stock and red spot cones, but I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has had good standard cones and done nothing more than swap these out for the red spots (or the other way around).
 
From the bench tests, the Red Sopt have almost double the rate (double the 'stiffness') of the stock ones. I'm considering fitting a set of Red Spots.


Have to say I didn't realise red spots were double the rate, in retrospect standard cones may have suited better for a softer ride, however now red spots are fitted I'm not about to change them again.

I think more comfortable seats may alleviate the harsher bump response for my wife. After cheap Porsche 924 / 944 items but I digress

#19 Bobbins

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 02:31 PM

I've done some bench tests a while back on stock and red spot cones, but I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has had good standard cones and done nothing more than swap these out for the red spots (or the other way around).

 

From the bench tests, the Red Sopt have almost double the rate (double the 'stiffness') of the stock ones. I'm considering fitting a set of Red Spots.

 

Can you elaborate any on the bench test results you had? I'd be interested in any results that could be graphed to compare the compression at increasing levels of force - the red spot cones are a completely different shape to the standard cones and I suspect the changed shape enables them to behave in a similar manner to a variable rate spring, ie. substantially more rising rate than the more basic standard offering?



#20 Spider

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 09:16 PM

 

I've done some bench tests a while back on stock and red spot cones, but I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has had good standard cones and done nothing more than swap these out for the red spots (or the other way around).
 
From the bench tests, the Red Sopt have almost double the rate (double the 'stiffness') of the stock ones. I'm considering fitting a set of Red Spots.


Have to say I didn't realise red spots were double the rate, in retrospect standard cones may have suited better for a softer ride, however now red spots are fitted I'm not about to change them again.

I think more comfortable seats may alleviate the harsher bump response for my wife. After cheap Porsche 924 / 944 items but I digress

 

 

Bench Testing while can be useful, doesn't always translate to real world road testing, like you have done, and hence, why I asked, as it's a set up I haven't yet tried on the road, but am contemplating it. I find my people say they find them 'compliant' and this overall set up, does have me interested. I appreciate your feedback, thanks.

 

 

 

I've done some bench tests a while back on stock and red spot cones, but I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has had good standard cones and done nothing more than swap these out for the red spots (or the other way around).

 

From the bench tests, the Red Sopt have almost double the rate (double the 'stiffness') of the stock ones. I'm considering fitting a set of Red Spots.

 

Can you elaborate any on the bench test results you had? I'd be interested in any results that could be graphed to compare the compression at increasing levels of force - the red spot cones are a completely different shape to the standard cones and I suspect the changed shape enables them to behave in a similar manner to a variable rate spring, ie. substantially more rising rate than the more basic standard offering?

 

 

I'm away presently and so don't have all the data etc to hand.

 

This is not really as straight forward as perhaps I should have included in my post, (although I did say 'almost') I should have also said 'roughly' as well !

 

Considering the stock set up, the Rubber Cone itself, I found has a near linear spring rate. The Rising Rate comes from a combination of the shape of the Rubber Cone and the size & shape of the Flange on the Trumpet. This is why the Vans, Pick-ups, Mokes, and late Minis have a different Rear Trumpet and that gave a 'higher' rate that rose a little more sharply, all with the same Rubber Cone.

 

I found with the Red Spots, due to the Shape of the Cone itself, the Trumpet plays no part at all. As it compresses, the Flange of the Trumpet doesn't come in to contact with these Cones at all. So a bit of a down side with them is there's a loss of flexibility in that they are not 'tunable' in the same way that stock rubber cones are. I'm also not implying this is a bad thing either and that comes back to my 'real world road tested' question.



#21 tmsmini

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 02:16 AM

Just for comparison

The trumpets are all late model or LWB

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#22 ads7

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 08:56 AM

Original type Hilo is specifically profiled to maximise rising rate cones

#23 DeadSquare

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 09:11 AM

Original type Hilo is specifically profiled to maximise rising rate cones

 

Back in the 60's, a couple of students at Bromsgrove Poly were building a rig to evaluate different profiles for the lip on the trumpet.

 

I never found out, what they found out, but as I wanted something really stiff for racing, I heated and uncurled the lip on a set of early steel front ones.

 

This eliminated the 'rising rate'  feature, in fact, it pretty well eliminated 'rising'.



#24 tmsmini

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 05:00 PM

Another comparison

8000 mile red dot on right, new on left

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