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Another Inertia Vs Pre-Engaged Starter Motor Thread


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#1 unburntfuelinthemorning

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 07:15 PM

I've read loads of old threads and still can't make my mind up.

 

I have the choice to do either inertia or pre-engaged as I need a new ring gear and need to at least change the 10 tooth bendix on my inertia starter to a 9 tooth. 

 

The engine will have a 10:1 compression ratio.

 

The pre-engaged motor is a better solution in many ways but I do like the quaint oldy worldy smash and grab simplicity of the inertia motor.

 

What'd y'all reckon? 



#2 imack

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 07:46 PM

Never had a problem with the old inertia starters myself.

#3 Rorf

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 08:18 PM

That was the problem back in the day, they couldn't fit a crank handle on the mini because the wheel was in the way :D

 

Keep the old system, it is simple, reliable and of course, classic.



#4 DeadSquare

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 08:32 PM

Somebody, like Les Leston, sold a starting handle for a Mini.



#5 Moke Spider

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 08:42 PM

I gotta say, I hate the 'smash and grab ' with a passion. Not terribly reliable and quite prone to sticking from the dust given off from the clutch, not to mention light rust. They also wear the ring gears pretty heavy (for what they are) and due to the direction from which they come from, have a habit of knocking off ring gears. Dreadful things.

 

I fit as a matter of course a pre-enguage, though the ones I use are Japanese and work with the 'Smash and Grab' ring gear. They are fitted to some of the 80's and 90's Isuzi cars. We had them in Aust as a Gemini (for one) and there was also a utility / pick-up that had the same engine & starter motor. The holes need a little filing, but otherwise, they are a bolt up fit. And not Lucas !



#6 unburntfuelinthemorning

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 09:12 PM

Does anyone know who manufactures the various starter motors currently available in England?



#7 Rorf

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 05:36 AM

Chinese Lucas :D



#8 unburntfuelinthemorning

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 07:35 AM

Is that now the only choice? 

 

No wonder they never say what make they are.

 

And are they any good?

 

Maybe I should just overhaul my old motor.



#9 nicklouse

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 07:42 AM

still running my 30 plus year old inertia motor on mine.



#10 Ethel

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 08:41 AM

I gotta say, I hate the 'smash and grab ' with a passion. Not terribly reliable and quite prone to sticking from the dust given off from the clutch, not to mention light rust. They also wear the ring gears pretty heavy (for what they are) and due to the direction from which they come from, have a habit of knocking off ring gears. Dreadful things.

 

I fit as a matter of course a pre-enguage, though the ones I use are Japanese and work with the 'Smash and Grab' ring gear. They are fitted to some of the 80's and 90's Isuzi cars. We had them in Aust as a Gemini (for one) and there was also a utility / pick-up that had the same engine & starter motor. The holes need a little filing, but otherwise, they are a bolt up fit. And not Lucas !

Any more info Spider?

 

Like a part number or a particular model of Isuzi.

 

I wonder how close the tolerances are on the fitting of an inertia motor. There could be the potential for fettling them to be more grab than smash.

 

I tend to agree with Nick, it's more of a solution looking for a problem. If anything, I'd say they're more reliable than pre-engaged motors, though not if you allow for the fact they do away with the separate solenoid.



#11 nicklouse

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 08:59 AM

If anything, I'd say they're more reliable than pre-engaged motors, though not if you allow for the fact they do away with the separate solenoid.

 

but the pre engage run two "solenoids"  so two times the trouble. all a solenoid is is a big relay.



#12 unburntfuelinthemorning

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:10 AM

I bought a new motor for my 1959 Land Rover about fifteen years ago because the one on there (possibly original) was sounding a little graunchy and sticking sometimes - not sure what make the new one was, got it from a Land Rover specialist.  I never fitted it and it went with the vehicle unused when I sold it.  It was a daily driver and on the odd occasion (once every couple of months) when it stuck, knocking it from underneath with the trolley jack handle always unstuck it. 

 

I've only ever had inertia starters on Minis and they've never let me down.  All my other cars apart from the Land Rover have had pre-engaged starters and they've never let me down either.  Maybe that shows the quality of original equipment motors.  I've no experience of non-genuine replacements apart from the Land Rover one I never fitted.

 

My Mini should have the Lucas M35J motor but it looks like an earlier motor and has a 10 tooth pinion instead of 9.  Does anyone overhaul their motors anymore?  I see brush kits on Ebay but are they any good?

 

One advantage of the pre-engaged motor is it overcomes the problem of the pinion being ejected during an isolated firing stroke - that can be annoying with an inertia motor.



#13 Moke Spider

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:40 AM

 

I gotta say, I hate the 'smash and grab ' with a passion. Not terribly reliable and quite prone to sticking from the dust given off from the clutch, not to mention light rust. They also wear the ring gears pretty heavy (for what they are) and due to the direction from which they come from, have a habit of knocking off ring gears. Dreadful things.

 

I fit as a matter of course a pre-enguage, though the ones I use are Japanese and work with the 'Smash and Grab' ring gear. They are fitted to some of the 80's and 90's Isuzi cars. We had them in Aust as a Gemini (for one) and there was also a utility / pick-up that had the same engine & starter motor. The holes need a little filing, but otherwise, they are a bolt up fit. And not Lucas !

Any more info Spider?

 

Like a part number or a particular model of Isuzi.

 

I wonder how close the tolerances are on the fitting of an inertia motor. There could be the potential for fettling them to be more grab than smash.

 

I tend to agree with Nick, it's more of a solution looking for a problem. If anything, I'd say they're more reliable than pre-engaged motors, though not if you allow for the fact they do away with the separate solenoid.

 

 

In Australia, they were fitted to the Holden (and then later, Isuzi) Gemini and also one of the smaller Izuzi Utes (pick-up).

 

I don't know what the original Nipondenso Part no. is for them, but I'm able to obtain them through a couple of the Auto-electrical Wholesalers. I'll find out some more and come back on that.

I've been using them now for over 10 years and been pleased as punch with them. Better than the Lucas ones. They are a popular conversion in these parts.

 

c2NSjwD.jpg

 

 

 

 

If anything, I'd say they're more reliable than pre-engaged motors, though not if you allow for the fact they do away with the separate solenoid.

 

but the pre engage run two "solenoids"  so two times the trouble. all a solenoid is is a big relay.

 

 

I've not seen any with 2 solenoids Nick, they maybe about ??

The ones, like those that I fit, only have 1 solenoid and it does both functions.



#14 Moke Spider

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:47 AM

Ethal, here's a link to one supplier (not one I've used and seems a little 'heavy handed'), but it might give some leads locally for you

 

https://www.speedspa...07_p/rxs007.htm

 

and another

 

https://www.automoti...-jackaroo-rodeo

 

Seems there may have been 2 manufacturers of them.



#15 nicklouse

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 11:04 AM

 

 

I gotta say, I hate the 'smash and grab ' with a passion. Not terribly reliable and quite prone to sticking from the dust given off from the clutch, not to mention light rust. They also wear the ring gears pretty heavy (for what they are) and due to the direction from which they come from, have a habit of knocking off ring gears. Dreadful things.

 

I fit as a matter of course a pre-enguage, though the ones I use are Japanese and work with the 'Smash and Grab' ring gear. They are fitted to some of the 80's and 90's Isuzi cars. We had them in Aust as a Gemini (for one) and there was also a utility / pick-up that had the same engine & starter motor. The holes need a little filing, but otherwise, they are a bolt up fit. And not Lucas !

Any more info Spider?

 

Like a part number or a particular model of Isuzi.

 

I wonder how close the tolerances are on the fitting of an inertia motor. There could be the potential for fettling them to be more grab than smash.

 

I tend to agree with Nick, it's more of a solution looking for a problem. If anything, I'd say they're more reliable than pre-engaged motors, though not if you allow for the fact they do away with the separate solenoid.

 

 

In Australia, they were fitted to the Holden (and then later, Isuzi) Gemini and also one of the smaller Izuzi Utes (pick-up).

 

I don't know what the original Nipondenso Part no. is for them, but I'm able to obtain them through a couple of the Auto-electrical Wholesalers. I'll find out some more and come back on that.

I've been using them now for over 10 years and been pleased as punch with them. Better than the Lucas ones. They are a popular conversion in these parts.

 

c2NSjwD.jpg

 

 

 

 

If anything, I'd say they're more reliable than pre-engaged motors, though not if you allow for the fact they do away with the separate solenoid.

 

but the pre engage run two "solenoids"  so two times the trouble. all a solenoid is is a big relay.

 

 

I've not seen any with 2 solenoids Nick, they maybe about ??

The ones, like those that I fit, only have 1 solenoid and it does both functions.

 

they have a relay that is used to actuate the starter solenoid. what is a solenoid? just a big relay.






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