33 replies to this topic

[Ethel]

Thanks for the links Spider,

 

They do look like right, like original equipment.

 

I think Nick's referring to the relay used to switch the solenoid. - He beat me to it, so I won't mention the occasional burnt out ignition switch I've had with inertias 

[mab01uk]

Somebody, like Les Leston, sold a starting handle for a Mini.

 

The November 2018 issue of Miniworld magazine had an interesting archive article about Oselli which mentions the Mini Starting Handle Kit, see below:-

 

Oselli Engineering - The Three Engineers

One of the first products was a starting handle kit designed to fit the BMC transverse engine layout. No major modification was needed to fit the device, customers simply added an alloy bracket (later versions were cast steel) that bolted on to the wheel hub, utilising the existing steering arm bolts. With the nearside front wheel on full left-hand lock this allowed the handle to be inserted and aligned with the nose of the crankshaft dog, which was supplied with the components.

"The kit was extraordinarily successful as it attracted publicity for Oselli  from Practical Motorist, Car Mechanics and other motoring publications" asserts David Oldham who started Oselli with Tony Toller and Dudley Gliddon in 1960 to supplement their poor apprenticeship wages.

 

 

"The starting-handle kit referred to was made by Oselli Engineering, Industrial Estate, Stanton Harcourt Road, Eynsham, Oxon. It is ingeniously arranged so that the handle can be inserted when the left front wheel is turned to full lock. It is necessary to cut an opening in the wheel valance and to bolt two guide plates in place to position the inner end of the handle. A bracket, bolted to the front suspension, steadies the outer end of the shaft. The only other job to be done is to unscrew the crank shaft-pulley securing bolt and substitute the starting-handle dog bolt, which is also provided in the kit."

http://minicarcare.b...ing-handle.html

 

 

"Don't get me started" by Wheelnut
"When the Mini was launched in August 1959, it had all sorts of heretical features to upset the traditionalists. Funny little wheels, funny little rubber springs, funny sideways engine, and even funnier front wheel drive. And that’s before you start looking at external body seams and the absence of a proper dashboard. But there was another, deeply-felt attack on the well-established order of things – it didn’t have a starting handle – or even, it seemed any possibility of fitting one!
 You don’t have to be really old to remember how starting handles could get you out of trouble when the battery was only able to feed a dull glimmer on your ignition warning lamp. After all, in those days, when you had a battery with a year’s guarantee, on day 366 there was a very good chance that it would die on you. If there was no one around to give you a push start, then the old starting handle was a potential life-saver. The damn thing might also break your thumb or your wrist if you didn’t know how to hold the handle (keep your thumb on the same side as your fingers, and be ready for kickback). It could also come in useful for doing maintenance jobs like setting your tappet clearances, enabling you to turn the engine fairly accurately to find the back of the cam for each tappet. Some people even regarded the handle as a good defensive weapon that could be legitimately carried in the car, but I digress.
Well, what about the handle-less Mini? It seems fairly obvious that with the engine moved from its rightful, time-honoured position with the crankshaft nose facing the front of the car, then there was absolutely no possibility of the manufacturer or anybody else being able to contrive a way of connecting up a starting handle. But fear not! The Mini started off the most inventive and prolific era of accessory manufacture Britain has ever seen. Every magazine had pages and pages of advertisements for gizmos to ameliorate your Mini. Those endlessly industrious accessory guys were not about to be defeated by a sideways engine, oh no!    Galloping to the rescue of Minis with feeble batteries came Oselli Accessories. For about a fiver, (in the mid-1960s) they offered a complete kit of handle, crankshaft dog, guide plates, and a support arm. You had to cut a hole in the wing valance, fit the crankshaft dog in place of the standard crank bolt, and bolt into place the support arm inside the wheelarch. To use the starting handle, you put the wheels on full left lock, and poked the handle through the support arm hole and the hole in the valance, engaged the dog and wound your engine into life – you hoped. No, I’ve never tried one, or even seen one, but what a collector’s item this must be…"
http://www.bmh-ltd.c...wheelnut_16.asp

Edited by mab01uk, 17 May 2019 - 11:48 AM.

[Ethel]

Well there's a twist, it seems Oz & 'Murca had smaller Isuzus than the ones that made it to Blighty. A 1.7L Astra looks to be the closest potential Holden substitute if anyone has lying around 

[unburntfuelinthemorning]

So on my 1979 Mini I should have a Lucas M35J inertia starter motor but upon wire brushing the casing it seems that I indeed do have the earlier M35G motor complete with 10 tooth pinion so God knows what that's off of. 

 

Anyhow it still works well so I'm thinking of stripping, cleaning and overhauling it and changing the pinion to a 9 tooth.  So I'll stick a new inertia starter ring gear on the flywheel and we'll be good for years to come; sorted.

[Spider]

Thread revival,,,,

 

 

 

I gotta say, I hate the 'smash and grab ' with a passion. Not terribly reliable and quite prone to sticking from the dust given off from the clutch, not to mention light rust. They also wear the ring gears pretty heavy (for what they are) and due to the direction from which they come from, have a habit of knocking off ring gears. Dreadful things.

 

I fit as a matter of course a pre-enguage, though the ones I use are Japanese and work with the 'Smash and Grab' ring gear. They are fitted to some of the 80's and 90's Isuzi cars. We had them in Aust as a Gemini (for one) and there was also a utility / pick-up that had the same engine & starter motor. The holes need a little filing, but otherwise, they are a bolt up fit. And not Lucas !

Any more info Spider?

 

Like a part number or a particular model of Isuzi.

 

I wonder how close the tolerances are on the fitting of an inertia motor. There could be the potential for fettling them to be more grab than smash.

 

I tend to agree with Nick, it's more of a solution looking for a problem. If anything, I'd say they're more reliable than pre-engaged motors, though not if you allow for the fact they do away with the separate solenoid.

 

 

After a little poking about, I believe you guys had an Opel Kadett (C type) and they were apparently more or less the same as our Holden Gemini. If the engines in them came from Isuzi, then those are the Starter Motors.

I * think * you guys also had a Pick-up - Chevy LUV ?? Those made from about 1980 to 1995-ish I believe also used this same engine and also had the same Starter Motor.

[ACDodd]

Lucas M79 is the unit you need available everywhere in the uk still.

Ac

[Spider]

Lucas M79 is the unit you need available everywhere in the uk still.

Ac

 

Cheers for the suggestion there Adrian, however, the units I've suggested here are actually for fitting up to the pre-verto 107 tooth Ring Geared Flywheels, the OEM types being made by Hitachi. If memory serves, the M79 is for the 129 tooth Verto flywheel is it not ?

[ACDodd]

It is but if your changing ring gears due to the common wear you get with the inertia type easy change to the 129 type it fits all flywheels. The original post mentions the need to change the ring gear. The verto flywheel was produced for 4 years with the inertia 107 tooth ring gear in the uk from ‘82 pistons I early ‘86. After that they changed all production to the m79 pre engaged starter with 129 tooth ring gear. This stayed like this through all metro and Mini production until the lines closed.

The type you mention I believe is common in the uk too although this is a Chinese version I think;

https://minispares.c...|Back to search

These are good starters too with a 4.4:1 gear reduction included which means you get near warm start cranking on cold days and less current being consumed. The only downside I have seen is the positive solenoid terminal contact burns away but is easily available and replaced easily.

Ac

Edited by ACDodd, 26 December 2020 - 11:53 AM.

[Spider]

Cheers once again Adrian.

Now you mentioned it I was away there was a cross over in there somewhere but as we never got the Verto Flywheels here I couldn't recall which way they crossed !

 

As the Pre-engauged types come in from the other side, I often find that these will work OK for quite a long time even with a part worn Ring Gear that for an Inertial type, you would normally change out. Interestingly, I haven't had any issues or feed back as such from the Pinion coming on from the wrong side that has no lead-in ground in to the teeth.

[floormanager]

I've been looking through ebay,  Is this similar?

https://www.ebay.co....zIAAOSwA3dYWjHk

[nicklouse]

I've been looking through ebay,  Is this similar?

https://www.ebay.co....zIAAOSwA3dYWjHk

I would join the TMF+ and buy the one from MiniSpares that AC linked.

[Spider]

I've been looking through ebay,  Is this similar?

https://www.ebay.co....zIAAOSwA3dYWjHk

 

That is indeed it, though I was paying just a tad over 1/2 that for remanufactured Hitachi units outright, through Ashdowns. Sadly though, they have now exhausted their supplies. There are a couple of other local suppliers though and given the vehicles they were fitted to (there's also a 4WD on top of those vehicles already mentioned), I feel at least here, they'll be around for a while yet.

 

The Lucas unit and swapping out the Ring gear is an option, though I have to say, I have never found any Lucas Starter motor to be long lasting.

[ACDodd]

It’s not uncommon. For the m79 Lucas unit to last 30 years in the uk. Much better than the inertia units. On average I would say 10 to 15 years.

Ac

Edited by ACDodd, 27 December 2020 - 09:34 AM.

[MiniMadRacer]

I have only ever used the "original" Lucas starters, (70s and 80s sourced) and touch wood never had an issue with them.. I think maybe the issue is with perhaps poorly mainatined cars where they are cranked over and over to get them to start and the poor starter has done a lot of "mileage"... the car should spin and fire up pretty instantly, certainly within 5 secs and then you will find a 30 yr old starter has done no  mileage at all in real terms..The damage is done when people are sitting there cranking the starter for a minute or more, which they were not designed to do.. even when priming a new engine, spinning it with plugs out etc it should be a 30 sec burst and then let the starter cool down before giving it another burst.. I was told years ago (might be rubbush) that a flat ish battery also does them no good with slow cranking barely able to fire into life...

[ACDodd]

You are correct, flat battery and resistive cables will cause them to get even hotter inside due to the current flowing much longer time than if all the connections and the battery are good.

Ac

Edited by ACDodd, 27 December 2020 - 12:09 PM.