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Why Would Anyone Want An Injection Mini


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#16 unburntfuelinthemorning

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 06:52 AM

As far as diagnosing and fixing injection minis go, you realistically only need access to a code reader, not a huge expense when it comes to the mini, everything else you should already have as a mini owner.

And these new things are directly transferable to the modern cars that most drive on the daily

A code reader is a useful aid to repairing modern cars but should not be followed blindly as they can give true but misleading information and lead to serviceable parts being replaced.  Proper brain power diagnosis still needs to be used alongside them.

 

What tool do you need to read codes on a Mini.  Do they have an EOBD port?  If not generic code readers won't work.



#17 Fast Ivan

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 06:58 AM

As far as diagnosing and fixing injection minis go, you realistically only need access to a code reader, not a huge expense when it comes to the mini, everything else you should already have as a mini owner.

And these new things are directly transferable to the modern cars that most drive on the daily

A code reader is a useful aid to repairing modern cars but should not be followed blindly as they can give true but misleading information and lead to serviceable parts being replaced.  Proper brain power diagnosis still needs to be used alongside them.
 
What tool do you need to read codes on a Mini.  Do they have an EOBD port?  If not generic code readers won't work.

Absolutely bang on with code readers only being a tool to aid diagnosis.
The Mpi certainly does have an obd port, I’ve used the Sykes pickavant acr series

#18 Bobbins

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 08:47 AM

It's amazing how many people confuse injection with engine bay clutter! The only parts relevant to the injection system are the throttle body (about the same size as a carb), the ecu (relocate it if you're so fussy) and a few sensors (big deal!). The rest of the clutter that you see in later model Minis is the servo and on the MPi the relocated radiator which allows it to be more efficient.

When it comes to tuning, injection systems are much simpler than carbs, it's only scary territory if you're not familiar with them. Unlike using a carb, with injection the fuelling and ignition can be set for every eventuality of engine speed, load, air temp, coolant temp and even barometric pressure. Try doing that with a carb. That's why injection cars are more powerful, have more torque, better economy, and start every time. Yes carbs have character, but that's because they have quirks, quirks that are solved/ironed out when using injection. There's a good reason why Jenvey make a range of "heritage" throttle bodies to imitate DCOE carbs but enable injection to be used.

Unfortunately when it comes to the Mini the SPi injection was an early attempt and many injection systems of that era can appear over complex and tricky to set up, the MPi is a much simpler system and fundamentally the same as most modern systems. If I wasn't so unsure as to whether my JDM has some dependence on the ecu for the air-con, I'd convert the SPi setup to the twin injector MPi setup.

If you want to see clutter ... try working on a late model JDM Mini!!!

Edited by Bobbins, 26 May 2019 - 08:49 AM.


#19 Steve220

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 09:16 AM


But if you get something like the specialist components throttle body kit then you can go beyond that limit.
Emissions are also a bit of a problem


Interested to understand why you think emissions are a problem?

Edited by Steve220, 26 May 2019 - 09:17 AM.


#20 Steve220

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 09:21 AM

 

My 93 carb car has just had a rebuild... it's been started twice the 2 years previous to the rebuild. I'd finally finished it today, some fuel, a charged battery and it started first turn of the key.

Even my 1980 Estate starts first turn in the cold winter months.

Pre injection is the way to go, so much simpler and more spacious under the bonnet and I can do most repairs and diagnosis with only basic tools

 

 

Exactlly, just had the clutch out of my carbed mini, engine stayed in imagine the hastle of doing that on a injection, ECU , brake servo 

 

 

Actually just as easy as a non-mpi engine.  It takes 5 minutes to remove the ECU and move the fuse box out the way on an MPi.  Accumulated time, mine took me a few hours to do

 

wRBxDgk.jpg



#21 Fast Ivan

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 09:26 AM

But if you get something like the specialist components throttle body kit then you can go beyond that limit.
Emissions are also a bit of a problem


Interested to understand why you think emissions are a problem?

Generally emissions are a problem with the Mpi, my comment is unrelated to the SC kit, this, as you know, gives you the flexibility to help with emissions

#22 Steve220

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 09:29 AM

 

 

But if you get something like the specialist components throttle body kit then you can go beyond that limit.
Emissions are also a bit of a problem


Interested to understand why you think emissions are a problem?

Generally emissions are a problem with the Mpi, my comment is unrelated to the SC kit, this, as you know, gives you the flexibility to help with emissions

 

 

I seem to see a full left and right of arc when it comes to MPi and emissions.  I've never had a problem with them!  It usually tired sensors and poor maintenance that let the MPi down.  MEMS is a limiting factor, however it is also a very capable ECU! Its adaptivity and idle control are better than some modern ECUs!



#23 mab01uk

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 11:31 AM

Interesting to read Mike Theaker's (BMW/Rover Engine Development Engineer) account of the Mini MPI development story and how it was BMW's will and John Cooper's insistence that finally got the MPI into production in 1996, extending the Mini's life by 4 more years. Mike Theaker also later worked on powertrain development for the New MINI (R50).

Mike Theaker on the Development of the Twin Point Injection system for the Mini.
Link to PDF below:-
http://www.turbomini...ts/493117-1.pdf

 

(September 2000 Miniworld)



#24 Richey

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 12:51 PM

Reliability and power? 



#25 CityEPete

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 01:22 PM

How can on board diagnostics on an injection car be an advantage over a carb mini that doesn't have anything that needs diagnosing?! Lol

#26 CityEPete

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 01:27 PM

Reliability and power?


The only unreliable carb minis I've known are the ones where people have removed the splash guard.

People drove these cars and many others with an Su and A series for millions of miles without much trouble, having owned all versions the only one we had trouble with was a 1997 Mpi from Bristol mini centre,it was only a few years old and even they couldn't stop it spluttering.

#27 Fast Ivan

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 01:44 PM

How can on board diagnostics on an injection car be an advantage over a carb mini that doesn't have anything that needs diagnosing?! Lol


Ahh so you have the ever elusive mini that doesn’t ever need diagnosing!!

#28 CityEPete

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 02:38 PM

How can on board diagnostics on an injection car be an advantage over a carb mini that doesn't have anything that needs diagnosing?! Lol

Ahh so you have the ever elusive mini that doesn’t ever need diagnosing!!

There's nothing on my mini that the diagnostics on an mpi could diagnose, and less bits in general.

#29 blacktulip

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 03:33 PM

I'm a carb man myself as I love the simplicity of how they work. Although I had an spi once and it did feel nice to drive.

#30 masslaw

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 11:37 PM

Sort of related.  Would anyone recommend adding fuel injection cleaner to the gas for the SPI?






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