16 replies to this topic

[phillrulz]

Hi all, my mini has always ran warm.

 

So much so i got a nice external fan kit wacked it on and that fine to keep her ideal. 

 

New 2 core minispares ally radiator, new high flow pump and new oil and 25% antifreeze coolant and she gets hotter and hotter on idle. Problem is i think that she is cooler damn good but seems engine is just making too much heat. Ive broke out the k Type tempretures measured are below. I cant remember the thermostat however it usually controls to ideal. 

 

Measurements taken with engine idle with the tempreture gauage on the line between ideal and hot 

 

Between cylinder 2/3 rocker cover gasket / stud - ~ 89C

 

Radiator inlet hose / spigot  83C 

 

Radiator fins -  95 C

 

Metal of car wing 47C

 

Ambient 23C 

 

All these measurements are with the eletric fan off which is effectivly blocking some airflow. 

 

Will measure again tomorrow with the fan off just to see how much air it blocks. 

 

Are minis ment to thermal run away on idle? Both this mini and my cooper spi will fire their aditional fans . 

 

 

Anyone have a definity anwser on what the head tempreture should be when "ideal" on the tempguage. 

 

 

 

[unburntfuelinthemorning]

Can't vouch for other engines but the 998s I've had would idle all day without overheating.

 

They might get a little hot when idling after high speed driving but they didn't overheat.

 

Saying that one of them used to blow water out of the radiator so would eventually overheat but I fitted an expansion tank and it was fine from then on.

 

None of them had an electric fan.

[phillrulz]

Some more info - 

 

On agressive driving ( my normal driving ) she runs at ideal the whole time....

Once i stop after my agressive driving takes about 2 and a half minutes to go from ideal to mark between ideal and hot. 

As far as im aware this would rise till a boil over but id rather not find out. 

 

 

Car - 998 standard inside as far as imaware, maybe 850 final drive. 

HS4 Stage 1 needle. Cant remeber which 

KN pancake filter 

two branch exhaust manifold

minispares intake manifold 

Single box 1.5 or 2" exhaust cant remeber 

 

In car heater blows damn hot 

[phillrulz]

Can't vouch for other engines but the 998s I've had would idle all day without overheating.

 

They might get a little hot when idling after high speed driving but they didn't overheat.

 

Saying that one of them used to blow water out of the radiator so would eventually overheat but I fitted an expansion tank and it was fine from then on.

 

None of them had an electric fan.

 

By little warm you mean rises to between ideal and hot? Id rather not idle mine to death but ill go turn her on and keep an eye on the temp with my eletri fan turned off. 

 

 

Left mine to idle - after 10 mins it was between red and line above ideal 

Edited by phillrulz, 22 June 2019 - 06:34 PM.

[phillrulz]

My nice eletric fan has eaten a hole in my nice new radiator :) guess im gonna have to send that to be fixed..... 

[Spider]

Given your description here, the first item that comes to mind is the type and condition of your Water Pump and what size Pulley you have on it.

 

The Pumps with the cast type impellers are better than the pressed steel types and check the clearance to the Pump Body, off hand, I think this needs to be between 0.020 and 0.030". A smaller Pulley is better for most road cars.

 

I've gotta say, I'm not a Fan (pun intended) of the Electric Thermo Fans on Minis. The Fans work hard all the time on a Mini as there's little Air pressure difference from the Engine Bay to the Wheel Arch. The Mechanical Fan absorbs around 3 - 5 HP to run it, put another way, it pushes 3 - 5 HPs worth of Air. The best Electric Fan I've ever seen is about 0.45 HP so that's all the Air it can push - only around 10% of what the Mechanical Fan can do. If running both Fans, the Electric Fan is only something that blocks the Airflow Path.

 

They can be an asset if congested traffic and that's about all.

[phillrulz]

Given your description here, the first item that comes to mind is the type and condition of your Water Pump and what size Pulley you have on it.

 

The Pumps with the cast type impellers are better than the pressed steel types and check the clearance to the Pump Body, off hand, I think this needs to be between 0.020 and 0.030". A smaller Pulley is better for most road cars.

 

I've gotta say, I'm not a Fan (pun intended) of the Electric Thermo Fans on Minis. The Fans work hard all the time on a Mini as there's little Air pressure difference from the Engine Bay to the Wheel Arch. The Mechanical Fan absorbs around 3 - 5 HP to run it, put another way, it pushes 3 - 5 HPs worth of Air. The best Electric Fan I've ever seen is about 0.45 HP so that's all the Air it can push - only around 10% of what the Mechanical Fan can do. If running both Fans, the Electric Fan is only something that blocks the Airflow Path.

 

They can be an asset if congested traffic and that's about all.

 

Used to be cast impella now the plastic large deep into the block type, pulley is maybe 3" where the belt actually rides 

 

I 100% agree about a 100W fan power wise being sub 1 HP however seems to make a big diffrence, ill try without it once i get my brand new ally rad braized / TIGd back up.

 

May even see if i can get one of the large press metal agressive fans on her. 

 

Also, smaller the pulley the faster the pump right ? since less reduction / more increase in gearing i guess you call it?

Edited by phillrulz, 23 June 2019 - 02:18 AM.

[Minigman]

Is your timing spot on?
What rad thermostat are you running?
I used to have overheating issues on one of mine and I fitted a 2 core rad, hi flow water pump and a 74 degree stat. I also kept the flow through the heater matrix on to act like an additional rad. It still used to get hot but never boiled again. I also ran the electric kenlowe fan with it which used to fire up in traffic. That engine never ran cool but I did get it to the stage where it was ok - but I used to worry in traffic. Gone now so I can’t help you with temps exactly.

[phillrulz]

Is your timing spot on?
What rad thermostat are you running?
I used to have overheating issues on one of mine and I fitted a 2 core rad, hi flow water pump and a 74 degree stat. I also kept the flow through the heater matrix on to act like an additional rad. It still used to get hot but never boiled again. I also ran the electric kenlowe fan with it which used to fire up in traffic. That engine never ran cool but I did get it to the stage where it was ok - but I used to worry in traffic. Gone now so I can’t help you with temps exactly.

Can’t remember stat off top of my head, and I’m reluctant to change it since it controls so long as I’m moving.

Timing should be bang on was setup on the rolling road with a strobe by a tuner apparently I’m making 51hp at around 5600 rpm, peak torque 57 ft/lb which is pretty flat from 2250 to maybe 4250. I think he may advanced it a decent amount but it’s still where he put it as the proof mark still lined up

[Spider]

 

Given your description here, the first item that comes to mind is the type and condition of your Water Pump and what size Pulley you have on it.

 

The Pumps with the cast type impellers are better than the pressed steel types and check the clearance to the Pump Body, off hand, I think this needs to be between 0.020 and 0.030". A smaller Pulley is better for most road cars.

 

I've gotta say, I'm not a Fan (pun intended) of the Electric Thermo Fans on Minis. The Fans work hard all the time on a Mini as there's little Air pressure difference from the Engine Bay to the Wheel Arch. The Mechanical Fan absorbs around 3 - 5 HP to run it, put another way, it pushes 3 - 5 HPs worth of Air. The best Electric Fan I've ever seen is about 0.45 HP so that's all the Air it can push - only around 10% of what the Mechanical Fan can do. If running both Fans, the Electric Fan is only something that blocks the Airflow Path.

 

They can be an asset if congested traffic and that's about all.

 

Used to be cast impella now the plastic large deep into the block type, pulley is maybe 3" where the belt actually rides 

 

I 100% agree about a 100W fan power wise being sub 1 HP however seems to make a big diffrence, ill try without it once i get my brand new ally rad braized / TIGd back up.

 

May even see if i can get one of the large press metal agressive fans on her. 

 

Also, smaller the pulley the faster the pump right ? since less reduction / more increase in gearing i guess you call it?

 

 

Yes, the plastic impellars seem pretty good.

 

Sounds like you do have the smaller pulley on there, which IMO is the right one to use here.

 

You can try a different mechanical fan but really, it should well remain in limits with any of the stock fans (other than maybe the early 4 blade type).

 

If the cooling jacket is clean and the Radiator fins are clear, then it sound like, for what ever reason, the engine itself is putting too much heat in to the cooling system.

[phillrulz]

 

 

Given your description here, the first item that comes to mind is the type and condition of your Water Pump and what size Pulley you have on it.

The Pumps with the cast type impellers are better than the pressed steel types and check the clearance to the Pump Body, off hand, I think this needs to be between 0.020 and 0.030". A smaller Pulley is better for most road cars.

I've gotta say, I'm not a Fan (pun intended) of the Electric Thermo Fans on Minis. The Fans work hard all the time on a Mini as there's little Air pressure difference from the Engine Bay to the Wheel Arch. The Mechanical Fan absorbs around 3 - 5 HP to run it, put another way, it pushes 3 - 5 HPs worth of Air. The best Electric Fan I've ever seen is about 0.45 HP so that's all the Air it can push - only around 10% of what the Mechanical Fan can do. If running both Fans, the Electric Fan is only something that blocks the Airflow Path.

They can be an asset if congested traffic and that's about all.

Used to be cast impella now the plastic large deep into the block type, pulley is maybe 3" where the belt actually rides

I 100% agree about a 100W fan power wise being sub 1 HP however seems to make a big diffrence, ill try without it once i get my brand new ally rad braized / TIGd back up.

May even see if i can get one of the large press metal agressive fans on her.

Also, smaller the pulley the faster the pump right ? since less reduction / more increase in gearing i guess you call it?

Yes, the plastic impellars seem pretty good.

Sounds like you do have the smaller pulley on there, which IMO is the right one to use here.

You can try a different mechanical fan but really, it should well remain in limits with any of the stock fans (other than maybe the early 4 blade type).

If the cooling jacket is clean and the Radiator fins are clear, then it sound like, for what ever reason, the engine itself is putting too much heat in to the cooling system.

Well inside the block when I had the pump out the inside wall I’m guessing the external bore of cylinder 1 it was imaculate no build up just purely a tiny amount of rust as I left her dry between changing pumps.

The tuner advanced the distributor for power, between runs. I’ve ordered a “hot” fan 6 blade metal. Also looking at getting the ally radiator braised / tigd.

Plugs off top of my head are pinkish / white. However I do use lead free additive.

[Pete - W.Sussex]

If it were me I would be more worried about timing and mixture - the source of the heat - rather than the cooling (assuming that is basically ok, which it seems to be). But I am no expert - too often I spend too long trying to fix symptoms rather than the cause!

[phillrulz]

If it were me I would be more worried about timing and mixture - the source of the heat - rather than the cooling (assuming that is basically ok, which it seems to be). But I am no expert - too often I spend too long trying to fix symptoms rather than the cause!

 

Problem is both timing and mixture were setup on the rolling road. 

 

Will just have to see once shes supercharged as its all gonna change, 

[beardylondon]

Hi Phil, which rolling road did you use, as I’m looking for a good one.

[phillrulz]

Hi Phil, which rolling road did you use, as I’m looking for a good one.

Novatech in slough wasn’t bad think he’s like £80 an hour but I can’t remember