You need to take measurements with the engine running
Cooling Tips
Started by
Echan42
, Jul 03 2019 08:40 AM
Best Answer Spider , 03 July 2019 - 11:47 AM
The fitted temp gauges are notorious for being inaccurate. It would be wise to check the running temp with a known gauge before getting too far ahead of yourself.
As the other guys has said, the cooling jacket has to be clean and rust free. The engine Tune too must be good as well as this is also a common cause of hot running.
Where I am (In Australia) the temps in my area, go from -2 (like now!) to +45, though on many trips I do, the Temps are higher.
In many of my cars I run with a stock water pump, have the by-pass blocked off, an 82 deg thermostat, 6 Blade fan and the proper 4 tube type copper radiators.
The Stock Pump with a cast impeller are fine, though I am trialing one of the new 'plastic' impeller types.
It's imperative that the By-pass be blocked off. They bring on cavitation at lower speeds and only circulate hot coolant through the engine block, by-passing the radiator. This happens all the time when the engine is running, not just when the Thermostat is closed.
I really don't see any point in fitting a Thermostat 'cooler' than an 82 degree type. The 'cooler' thermostats don't allow the engine to be tuned properly and while it may runner cooler on some parts of a run, it will also runner at more normal temperatures too, ie, they can't give Temperature stability, which, in my view is more important than cool running.
The 6 Blade fans I find push the most Air through the Radiators. Some people find them noisy but I find them about the same or quieter than the plastic fans.
A decent 4 tube (or 4 core) radiator is better than any other. The common 4 tube and the 2 tube types have similar performance and also suffer the same issue. When you look at how the tubes are arranged in these, they are in a 'line' so those past the first don't get full air flow over them. The 4 tube radiators that were factory fitted to some models here (and the decent replacements) have off-set tubes so all tubes have air flow.
I've drive one of my cars in (uncomfortable) temps up to 53 degrees C and the engine only got up to 92 degrees. I find that with Air Temps up to about 45-ish, the engine temp hovers around the 85 mark.
In regards to coolant, I do run a Glycol based type in about a 30 / 70 ratio, however, plain water is superior only that it encourages rusting of the block. You can also get a straight inhibitor to mix with water, so you have that benefit but stops the block for rusting.
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29 replies to this topic
#16
imack
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Posted 06 July 2019 - 07:19 PM
#17
phillrulz
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Posted 06 July 2019 - 08:08 PM
The warm heat of mallorca is getting the best of my mini I'm afraid, the old owner neglected the coolant in the system and it's a little gunked up, I already gave it some acid treatment and changed to 10% antifreeze and cooling is much better, but I'm still waiting on my thermostat gasket so I can take it in to the radiator shop for a proper de-gunking.
Anyway, long story short I'm trying to optimize my cooling for the warm summer ahead of us, I'm currently considering the following:
- High capacity water pump
- New Radiator
- Electric fan
- 72ªc thermostat
What radiator is best for road aplication, I've read that 2 core are better than 4 core since so many blades and cores stuffed into so little space just didn't have enough dissipation, are fletcher ratiators good? What radiator would you recommend.
I've fitted a 8 inch sucker turbine under the wheel well to help with hot air extraction from the ratiator, it's wired to an arduino that detects speed using GPS and when the speed is under 5Km/h it activates the turbine, I'm not really sure the difference was measurable since temps seem the same with or without.
I'm contemplating adding a intake fan on the front grille and removing my current install, or should I remove the mechanical fan and add a thermostatically controlled electro fan as my only cooling source? seems like most heating issues arise when minis are simply sitting in traffic, I've also heard of people altering the fan bearing diameter to make it spin faster, or changing from a 8 blade plastic fan to a metal 6 blade, there's so many options I don't know where to start.
Any insight or recomendations are highly apreciated!
Personally, my experience ive had recently. Metal fans dont fit. Wouldnt locate right in my single piece rad cowl, was too thick to fit even the standard radiator.
Sounds stupid, check fan is correct way around and check the blades havent bent due to age.
#18
unburntfuelinthemorning
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Posted 06 July 2019 - 08:53 PM
Good point from Philrutz about checking the fan's the correct way around.
I used to run a metal fan and it fitted just as well as the plastic fan but this was one I bought twenty five years ago.
In your deleted post you said you're waiting for a thermostat housing gasket. I find it's worth keeping a stock of gasket paper of different thicknesses so a gasket can be made at any time.
#19
phillrulz
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Posted 06 July 2019 - 08:55 PM
Good point from Philrutz about checking the fan's the correct way around.
I used to run a metal fan and it fitted just as well as the plastic fan but this was one I bought twenty five years ago.
In your deleted post you said you're waiting for a thermostat housing gasket. I find it's worth keeping a stock of gasket paper of different thicknesses so a gasket can be made at any time.
With the minispares 2 core ally the fan has to be inside the rad haha, with the standard rad it again was too close. No spacers on the water pump encase anyone was gonna say
#20
Magneto
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Posted 07 July 2019 - 05:41 PM
Everyone makes a big deal about the fan being on correctly, and I understand - the right way is the right way, and they designed it to work that way and so on, no argument there - but I changed mine around to the correct way on my car and all it did was make the fan noise a lot louder, did nothing for the cooling. The thing that fixed mine was going to one of the inexpensive Chinesium radiators off Ebay. Fixed mine good, and we get 40+ temps all summer here in the US.
Of course, a clogged up cooling system - block, head and matrix - will run hot no matter what radiator you put in there or how many fans you have.
Edited by Magneto, 07 July 2019 - 05:42 PM.
#21
Spider
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Posted 07 July 2019 - 06:01 PM
Everyone makes a big deal about the fan being on correctly, and I understand - the right way is the right way, and they designed it to work that way and so on, no argument there - but I changed mine around to the correct way on my car and all it did was make the fan noise a lot louder, did nothing for the cooling.
From my experience, I've gotta agree. It does make a small difference, but if the car's running hot or over heating, this isn't going to be the issue.
#22
Echan42
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Posted 31 July 2019 - 06:25 PM
I'm back everyone!
And I bring positive results!
After following everyone's advice on this thread I was able to stabilize my mini's temperature to something I'm confortable with, my temp now hangs around 80-100°c.
I cherry picked suggestions and advice and arrivead at a solution that worked for me.
What I did was:
- Flush the system twice using a de-clogging acid solution, got rid of most of the rust
- Flushed twice using tap water
- Enabled the water pump to head bypass (it was filled with silicone sealant)
- Fitted a new 80°c thermostat, Fletcher 2 core aluminum radiator and thermostat housing
- Filled the system with pink 30% antifreeze
All this came to less than 100€ and I'm very happy with the results.
I'm considering ordering a new fan since I did see the blades on mine where slightly bent inwards and whle I'm at it I could as well fit a high capacity water pump.
Thank you all so much for your help!
Also, how much louder is the metal fan? I'm assuming 6 blade?
Good point from Philrutz about checking the fan's the correct way around.
I used to run a metal fan and it fitted just as well as the plastic fan but this was one I bought twenty five years ago.
In your deleted post you said you're waiting for a thermostat housing gasket. I find it's worth keeping a stock of gasket paper of different thicknesses so a gasket can be made at any time.
Edited by Echan42, 31 July 2019 - 06:28 PM.
#23
unburntfuelinthemorning
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Posted 31 July 2019 - 07:09 PM
The six blade metal fan was little louder than the plastic ones but I didn't find it too noticeable over the general cacophony of noise emanating from the front end.
#24
unburntfuelinthemorning
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Posted 31 July 2019 - 07:10 PM
Glad you got it sorted by the way, thanks for letting us know.
#25
nicklouse
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Posted 31 July 2019 - 11:17 PM
I think you have still fitted the fan the wrong way around. And your words make me thing you have as they tend to bend towards the engine.
#26
Rorf
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Posted 01 August 2019 - 07:30 AM
Well done on sorting your temp problems. Going forward ensure you keep the coolant at a min of 33% anitfreeze to water and change it every 3 years. If the water in your area is hard then use distilled or ionized water.
Use a high quality coolant.
Edited by Rorf, 01 August 2019 - 07:31 AM.
#27
Echan42
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Posted 02 August 2019 - 01:10 PM
The six blade metal fan was little louder than the plastic ones but I didn't find it too noticeable over the general cacophony of noise emanating from the front end.
Did the cooling increse noticeably? It's abbout time I changed my fan anyways so I might just spend a little more
#28
nicklouse
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Posted 02 August 2019 - 01:17 PM
Just fit it the correct way around.Did the cooling increse noticeably? It's abbout time I changed my fan anyways so I might just spend a little moreThe six blade metal fan was little louder than the plastic ones but I didn't find it too noticeable over the general cacophony of noise emanating from the front end.
#29
unburntfuelinthemorning
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Posted 02 August 2019 - 02:25 PM
The six blade metal fan was little louder than the plastic ones but I didn't find it too noticeable over the general cacophony of noise emanating from the front end.
Did the cooling increse noticeably? It's abbout time I changed my fan anyways so I might just spend a little more
Thinking back to when I had it (about 1993) I was struggling to keep the coolant temperature down. Fitting the six bladed fan was my way of tackling the problem as it seemed like a cheap solution but didn't really achieve anything. In the end I fitted a Minispares 4-core radiator and that did the trick although I had to add an expansion tank as it still blew water out over time.
In hindsight I should have tackled the underlying problem of rust in the cooling jackets as it was forever turning the coolant brown no matter how many times I flushed it. Probably could have saved the cost of the fan, the radiator and a load of antifreeze!
So in my case the fan didn't help but it wasn't what I needed anyway.
#30
Echan42
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Posted 03 August 2019 - 08:52 AM
Just fit it the correct way around.
Did the cooling increse noticeably? It's abbout time I changed my fan anyways so I might just spend a little moreThe six blade metal fan was little louder than the plastic ones but I didn't find it too noticeable over the general cacophony of noise emanating from the front end.
Dude, it is, trust me.
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