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""fuel Pump, Fog Light Button And Windwipers With Shortcut Problem"".


Best Answer phillrulz , 11 August 2019 - 09:10 PM

phillrulz,
Thank you for the pdfs, I downloaded them! You 're a star!
And thanks again for your time!

 

No Problem, weird things  like your problems tend to be related to earth faults, On your post about finding the problem mark it as solved , so if anyone else has your problem they can jump to how you solved it :) 

 

 

When i wrote out the cable colours / connections / uses i combines both PDFs,  since the 1999 eletrical will say what wires go where and the electrical libary PDF tell you the location of connectors. 

 

 

The earth you looked at was C557 / C559 

 

 

If you open the 1999 electrical diagram PDF and press CTRL+F , type in C557 page  11 will show bottom right that the circuits that use C557 are Fog Lamp, tail light washer pump, number plate lamps and brake lamps

 

C559 has LH tail lamp , Fuel pump , Japan - seat belt switch , LH brake light, fuel sender 

 

That earth would have been your problem. 

 

Sounds like the foglights were being back fed via the bad earth and the earth in the engine bay the one i asked you to check out was working good! Youll probably find the fuel pump was energising and voltage was returning through the fog light switch to ground!!!!!

 

If you can imagine power comes from battery so rear of car to front of car to be sent to the pump then back via the foglight wires to the foglight switch through the little bulb in the switch then via that wire in the engine bay then through the chassis back to the battery, thats why the fuel pump wouldnt work!

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#1 rolf

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 05:42 PM

Hello all from sunny Greece,

Mini is mpi of 19976.
I am facing a problem that looks like a short circuit .
Doing a long trip, after 50kms, the windshield wipers started working at their own will!  :D :D It was doing 2-3 wipes at random and would stop.
Later, I noticed that the motor had weak power when pressing the accelerator pedal, between 2.000 - 3.5000 rpm. After 3.500rpm it would fire up as normal.
After a stop of 30 minutes, the car could not start. The petrol pump did not make the common sound when you turn on the keys (no sound at all to be exact). I noticed that the rocker button for the fog lights was flashing at random, no matter if it was pressed down or up.
After 30 minutes, the mini started, and running on idle (no speed) and it sounded normal. After 500-1000 metres it stopped completely..
And finally, the icing on the cake:
At one moment, (only when key was turned on) the windshield wipers started working and would not stop. I tried to pull out the earth plug from the wiper motor, the wiper was still working!  :lol:
Seems like my mini is possesed!
Any clues as to where I can start?

 


Edited by rolf, 08 August 2019 - 08:22 PM.


#2 phillrulz

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 08:10 PM

I like electrical faults, but this is making my head hurt.....

 

 

Wiper motor / switch fed by fuse A8 15 A fed by aux relay fed from start solenoid ? 

 

 

I think it may be an earth fault, the fog light switch has 4 connections, live in , switched out to lights , jumper from switched live to bulb  and earth for bulb. Only way for the bulb to light is either voltage from switch to pass or if the ground became live and back fed through the switch then via the fog lights to ground ( uses SJ2 diffrent earth to switch) . Drawings show earth for switch bulb to be " Earth header 463 via C909-1 to SJ1 

 

 

I think your issue is around SJ1 since fuel pump, fog light switch , and other things use this. So id look for SJ1 and find where it joins the " earth header 463". 

 

Earth point C550 is around the " There is one Earth Header attached to the inner wing abutment bracket located in the left hand side of the engine compartment."  "LH side of engine compartment" . 

 

Check shes clean. 


Edited by phillrulz, 08 August 2019 - 08:42 PM.


#3 phillrulz

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 09:13 PM

 

 

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Edited by phillrulz, 08 August 2019 - 09:13 PM.


#4 rolf

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 07:00 AM

I like electrical faults, but this is making my head hurt.....

 

 

Wiper motor / switch fed by fuse A8 15 A fed by aux relay fed from start solenoid ? 

 

 

I think it may be an earth fault, the fog light switch has 4 connections, live in , switched out to lights , jumper from switched live to bulb  and earth for bulb. Only way for the bulb to light is either voltage from switch to pass or if the ground became live and back fed through the switch then via the fog lights to ground ( uses SJ2 diffrent earth to switch) . Drawings show earth for switch bulb to be " Earth header 463 via C909-1 to SJ1 

 

 

I think your issue is around SJ1 since fuel pump, fog light switch , and other things use this. So id look for SJ1 and find where it joins the " earth header 463". 

 

Earth point C550 is around the " There is one Earth Header attached to the inner wing abutment bracket located in the left hand side of the engine compartment."  "LH side of engine compartment" . 

 

Check shes clean. 

Before 2 weeks an electrician did a work - it was to install a beeper, so I get sound beep if I open the door and have forgotten the lights open. Could this be the reason of all these problems?

Tonight I will check if the fog lights open (I have only the rear one) or if it is only the button of the fog lights.

 

 

When you say: :Earth point C550 is around the " There is one Earth Header attached to the inner wing abutment bracket located in the left hand side of the engine compartment."  "LH side of engine compartment" .:

I feel rediculous asking this, but, Left hand while being IN the car or left hand being IN FRONT OF the car watching the engine? I suppose Left hand while being in the car eh? :shy: :shy:

 

SJ1 is a grey one?

 

"Earth header 463 via C909-1 to SJ1". Do you know or can you imagine where this could be located?

 

 

 

 



#5 phillrulz

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 02:08 PM

 

 

 

I like electrical faults, but this is making my head hurt.....

 

 

Wiper motor / switch fed by fuse A8 15 A fed by aux relay fed from start solenoid ? 

 

 

I think it may be an earth fault, the fog light switch has 4 connections, live in , switched out to lights , jumper from switched live to bulb  and earth for bulb. Only way for the bulb to light is either voltage from switch to pass or if the ground became live and back fed through the switch then via the fog lights to ground ( uses SJ2 diffrent earth to switch) . Drawings show earth for switch bulb to be " Earth header 463 via C909-1 to SJ1 

 

 

I think your issue is around SJ1 since fuel pump, fog light switch , and other things use this. So id look for SJ1 and find where it joins the " earth header 463". 

 

Earth point C550 is around the " There is one Earth Header attached to the inner wing abutment bracket located in the left hand side of the engine compartment."  "LH side of engine compartment" . 

 

Check shes clean. 

Before 2 weeks an electrician did a work - it was to install a beeper, so I get sound beep if I open the door and have forgotten the lights open. Could this be the reason of all these problems?

Tonight I will check if the fog lights open (I have only the rear one) or if it is only the button of the fog lights.

 

 

When you say: :Earth point C550 is around the " There is one Earth Header attached to the inner wing abutment bracket located in the left hand side of the engine compartment."  "LH side of engine compartment" .:

I feel rediculous asking this, but, Left hand while being IN the car or left hand being IN FRONT OF the car watching the engine? I suppose Left hand while being in the car eh? :shy: :shy:

 

SJ1 is a grey one?

 

"Earth header 463 via C909-1 to SJ1". Do you know or can you imagine where this could be located?

 

 

 

 

1 .  I dont know how he would have wired the beeper, i know how i would but cant comment how he might have - ill have a think if there is any issues he may have caused but probably related. 

2. they proabably wont even light may be extremly dim ( without turning them on ), maybe unplug the bullet connector for the fog light and see if the fog light switch light goes out 

3.  this is the thing i find weird, left when sat in the car, so cylinder 1 side of engine / timing cover etc 

4. SJ1 - Im not sure what the "Sealed Joints"  Look like im afraid. 

5. earth header 463 i think just means the metal its screwed into , c909-1 is just the cable ident wont mean anything to you however will be a black wire 

 

 

The way id do a beeper for door open, id tee of the door switch live, however this would beep everytime the door is open and beep the whole time the door is open. as for leaving lights on ( guessing you mean when engine is off) id put a relay in that was powered by the "run" position of the key. Then Tee of the headlights for a supply for beeper, when engine is on the relay energises and the normally closed contact opens voltage doesnt go through the relay and the beeper doesnt play. When the engine is turned off but lights left on voltage goes through the normally closed contacts and the beepers beeps till the supply is turned off by turning lights off. For short the engine being on inhibits the supply to the beeper from the headlights - engine off lights on the beeper plays . 


Edited by phillrulz, 09 August 2019 - 02:15 PM.


#6 rolf

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 07:42 PM

Hello Phillrulz,

honestly, I am gratefull for you time and effort.
just came from my mini.
Managed to find the possition of Earth point C550. The connector is white coloured.  It is hidden behind the expansion tank. The contact of the connector was in a bad state, full of corrossion but it is not the problem. I cleaned it, no resuls.

Also checked for the fuel pump, the fuse that normally gives electricity to it, has no electricity.

We removed the beeper and all the cables that came with it to be sure, nothing changed.

There is a joint connector below the left vent hole, very close to the ECU diagnostic plug. This connector seems that it connects the front electrics with the rear (I will confirm it tomorrow).The electrician, before 2 weeks put the beeper I mentioned previously, in this place. Just to be sure I asked him to take the wires and relay etc from the beeper out and disconnect it, so we are sure that this i not the problem. Nothing changed, so it appears that the beeper is not the problem. See picture.

https://www.dropbox....201645.jpg?dl=0

Tomorrow I will disconnect it and I will upload a photo

There is an interesting thing here: When I disconnected this plug next to the diagnostic plug, the fog light button stopped illuminating and the wiper motor too.

This picture is of the fog light rocker button.

https://www.dropbox....switch.jpg?dl=0

 

 

Also, I discovered something else
I found this wire that is cut, it is behind the wooden face, very close to the anti-theft box (behind the radio and glove box)
Colour is white with yellow. It was just cut, I nakeded it a bit so now 5mm of wire is visible
https://www.dropbox....202102.jpg?dl=0

Better photo tomorrow


Edited by rolf, 10 August 2019 - 07:44 PM.


#7 phillrulz

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 04:36 PM

Right, think that first joint next to the buzzer is C483 https://i.imgur.com/mpkuOB0.png  Locattion doesnt look right since its in the footwell but close

 

C483 the one you disconect and it kills the fog light does the following - 

 

Its labeled C - Connector  then -## pin number then cable colour

 

So C483-12RW  C101-12RW 

 

Means

Connector 483 pin 12 Colour Red with White - C101-12 RW 

 

C483-1 GP C101-1GP Brake pedal switch to brake lights

C483-2 UY C101-2 UY Fog light stiwtch to foglights

C483-3 GN C101-3 GN Reverse switch to reverse lights

C483-4 GW Alarm to RH rear indicator

C483-5 GR Alarm to LH rear indicator

C483-6 RB Light switch to LH tail lamp / numberplate

C483-7 GB Instruments to fuel sender

C483-8 ( japan spec)

C483-9  PK Boot switch - ECU 

C483-10 WP intertia switch to Fuel pump

C483-11 OR washer stalk to pump

C483-12 RW Light switchRH tail lamp 

 

 

That plug looks pretty shitty, are they melted and shortedd out ??

 

White and yellow could be "aerial" which goes to alarm ECU no idea what this is 

Could be "Diagnostic socket - Mems control unit "

 

 

Id recommend downloading the drawings im looking at and tracing wires. You can search the PDF for things like wire colours, connectors or items.

 

Im using - http://www.theminifo...agrams-redrawn/

"Eletrical diagrams 1999.pdf"

 

also here for plugs 

http://www.theminifo...attach_id=68242



#8 rolf

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 08:10 PM

I found the solution! :shades: :shades: :shades:

As I told you yesterday, this plug would connect the front wires with the rear ones.
And since when I disconnected it yesterday the 2 problems would dissapear (fog light button and windshield wipers), I thought that maybe the earth that is problematic, should be on the rear side.
I looked and found an earth point in the left rear corner, exactly where the left rear light is, between the fuel tank and the rear lights. It was VERY loose, so I tightened it. See pic https://www.dropbox.... point.jpg?dl=0


ALSO, I fixed a cord that goes (or comes from the engine fusebox - the big green ones that are 30amp) which was very oxidised, to the point that it broke when I touched it. It was the first fuse from right to left.

I dont know which one did the trick, but it worked like a charm!


About the fuse that you sent me details:
for example this: "C483-1 GP C101-1GP Brake pedal switch to brake lights"
these details are found in the pdfs that you gave me?
About the "shifty". No it is not melted, it is fine. But yes, it is hifty, after all this trouble! :-)

phillrulz,
Thank you for the pdfs, I downloaded them! You 're a star!
And thanks again for your time!


Edited by rolf, 11 August 2019 - 08:21 PM.


#9 phillrulz

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 09:10 PM   Best Answer

phillrulz,
Thank you for the pdfs, I downloaded them! You 're a star!
And thanks again for your time!

 

No Problem, weird things  like your problems tend to be related to earth faults, On your post about finding the problem mark it as solved , so if anyone else has your problem they can jump to how you solved it :) 

 

 

When i wrote out the cable colours / connections / uses i combines both PDFs,  since the 1999 eletrical will say what wires go where and the electrical libary PDF tell you the location of connectors. 

 

 

The earth you looked at was C557 / C559 

 

 

If you open the 1999 electrical diagram PDF and press CTRL+F , type in C557 page  11 will show bottom right that the circuits that use C557 are Fog Lamp, tail light washer pump, number plate lamps and brake lamps

 

C559 has LH tail lamp , Fuel pump , Japan - seat belt switch , LH brake light, fuel sender 

 

That earth would have been your problem. 

 

Sounds like the foglights were being back fed via the bad earth and the earth in the engine bay the one i asked you to check out was working good! Youll probably find the fuel pump was energising and voltage was returning through the fog light switch to ground!!!!!

 

If you can imagine power comes from battery so rear of car to front of car to be sent to the pump then back via the foglight wires to the foglight switch through the little bulb in the switch then via that wire in the engine bay then through the chassis back to the battery, thats why the fuel pump wouldnt work!


Edited by phillrulz, 11 August 2019 - 09:17 PM.


#10 phillrulz

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 09:17 PM

Glad you fixed it



#11 rolf

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 06:50 AM

Yes, I will change it to "solved". I wanted to change the title of the  question first, so people can see from the tittle if it is for them. The tittle I put, was totally wrong and doesnt guide people to the problem. Is there a possibility that the tittle can be changed?



#12 phillrulz

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 08:11 AM

Yes, I will change it to "solved". I wanted to change the title of the question first, so people can see from the tittle if it is for them. The tittle I put, was totally wrong and doesnt guide people to the problem. Is there a possibility that the tittle can be changed?



Can’t remember if titles can be edited buy the likes of us , but try edit the first post then click full editor may be able to in there

#13 rolf

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 10:28 AM

unfortunately I cannot change it. Contacted an admin if they can do the job for me.
Cheers mate!



#14 sonikk4

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 02:14 PM

Title changed as requested.



#15 rolf

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 09:15 PM

Thanks sonikk4!






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