20 replies to this topic

[rally1380]

Hi All.

 

I have a really small and actually quite useless bench mounted pillar drill at home that is OK for sheet tin, but anything over 3mm steel is a no go.  I've been wanting up upgrade this for some time and at the same time maybe buy a machine that would allow some mild milling too.  I'm not talking anything serious or even remotely accurate (as in accurate like engine components accurate), just something that maybe if I needed to machine a recessed slot into some 10mm alloy or something along those lines - essentially fabricating brackets and the like.

 

I'm stuck with single phase and it's going in a fairly modest sized double garage so anything large and industrial is out as I value my workspace to get the cars in over having a huge machine that may only get used a few times a year.

 

As an example of the sort of thing (not necessarily this one though!) I'm looking to buy is this from Axminster.......

 

https://www.axminste...ll-drill-505109

 

.....It seems to get good reviews, but I've not currently got £1200 to spare, and i'm wary of buying far eastern stuff like this as they tends to get bad reviews on the whole compared to older "proper stuff".

 

I have the possibility of buying an old Fobco 7/8 or a 10/8 floor standing pillar drill from work, but these are both 3 phase so will require either a motor swapping out or some clever electrics adding.  Then there is the fact that they are pillar drills and i'm not sure how they'd cope with any kind of milling if I was to purchase a 2 axis compound table to try some faux milling? 

 

Has anyone used or done anything similar or can recommend a direction to follow?  I'm a serial fabricator, repairer and general bodger and love having the right tools to hand and the "Toy" pillar drill I have currently got has reached the end of it's life with me.....what shall I replace it with folks?

 

 

[imack]

I've been surprised by what I can do on a 70 year old myford ml7 lathe. With a vertical slide mounted to the cross slide you can carry out some basic milling with the cutter mounted in the chuck, it just takes a bit of time setting it up. They're a very versatile little lathe.

[DeadSquare]

At 1/4 tonne, the Axminster isn't a toy.

 

475mm rise/fall is O.K. but tools/chucks/vice gobble up space between the quill and the table.

Edited by DeadSquare, 10 August 2019 - 01:23 PM.

[rally1380]

At 1/4 tonne, it isn't a toy.

475mm rise/fall is O.K. but tools/chucks/vice gobble up space.

I wasn't referring to the Fobco's as toys.... My pile of junk, bench mounted, Chinese made Axminster drill is the toy.

I realise the associated components that go with machining of any sort gobble space... You just need to be organised I suppose....or, be sensible within what you buy rather than going all in.

[rally1380]

At 1/4 tonne, it isn't a toy.

475mm rise/fall is O.K. but tools/chucks/vice gobble up space.

I wasn't referring to the Fobco's as toys.... My pile of junk, bench mounted, Chinese made Axminster drill is the toy.

I realise the associated components that go with machining of any sort gobble space... You just need to be organised I suppose....or, be sensible with what you buy rather than going all in.

Then again, once you have an engine crane, compressor and mig welder, a few vices, clamps and cutters are hardly anything really.... Ha ha.

Edited by rally1380, 09 August 2019 - 06:05 PM.

[Fast Ivan]

At 1/4 tonne, it isn't a toy.

475mm rise/fall is O.K. but tools/chucks/vice gobble up space.

I wasn't referring to the Fobco's as toys.... My pile of junk, bench mounted, Chinese made Axminster drill is the toy.

I realise the associated components that go with machining of any sort gobble space... You just need to be organised I suppose....or, be sensible with what you buy rather than going all in.

Then again, once you have an engine crane, compressor and mig welder, a few vices, clamps and cutters are hardly anything really.... Ha ha.

He’s referring to the space you have left to work with once the chuck, cutter and vice in place

[Fast Ivan]

Don’t rule out three phase - an inverter is a cost effective solution
I wouldn’t advise milling using the morse taper of a drill
Warco have a good selection of smaller mills and often come up on eBay
I’d advise an R8 spindle as you can buy collets that go right in to the spindle therefore maximising the Z axis travel

[stoneface]

Have a look at the Warco website. They do a good range of mill/drilling machines.

I use to have a Warco Major which did a good amount of work. A little bit more money.

These Chinese machines aren't bad for the money. The other option is secondhand old branded machines.

Most the smaller machines have morse taper spindles, the bigger ones have R8.

Make sure it has a drawbar; there is no mention of it on the axminster site and the photo isn't clear. One of the reviews does mention it but best to check.

One of the main issues with the round column mills is when raising and lowering the head. You lose any reference settings which is a pain when changing drill/cutter sizes and lengths. This is where a square column is better.

[stoneface]

and... what Fast Ivan says above is good advice.

I actually use a bridgeport with a 3 phase converter. A completely different machine to the chinese offerings but much bigger space requirement. Chalk and cheese...

[rally1380]

I fear from the advice I won't actually be able to afford anything much larger than a Warco Minor/Major kind of machine.... And these machines all seem to have a Morse taper quill/spindle over an R8 type.

I have researched folk who have converted a drill into a mill and at this kind of price point the differences between a drill and a mill/drill (similar to a Wahco minor /major and indeed the Axminster one I linked.... Which I think are the same Chinese machines) is fairly minimal bar the way the spindle handle operates with the added fine movement function of the mill.

I'm not saying these are the only differences, but with me probably ending up using this as a drill more times than a mill, am I not better off adapting something like the floor mounted Fobco 7/8 or 10/8 I have easy access to (for next to no outlay) rather than shelling out over £1000 on something that's similar in the sense that it's still a Morse taper quill?

And then that way, I can still use the 3 phase motors on either of the fobco machines and buy a converter. Yes not the ideal solution for milling, but not a bad drill to have and certainly sits head and shoulders above anything available on the market for up to £1000. Sadly I know this too well as we've just taken delivery in work of the Fobco's replacement (Fobco has developed a slight fault... But I can fix it ;) ) and the modern replacement is rubbish in comparison.... Luckily our students aren't as fussy as me.

[stoneface]

I don't know much about the Fobco machines but the lack of a draw bar makes it very limited for milling. The side pressure on a milling cutter will loosen the morse taper and it will fall out.

R8 is better but morse taper can be used for light milling if it has a drawbar.

The warco major I had was R8. They do come up on Ebay along with many other small mills.

[Ethel]

Slots in aluminium - use a router?

[rally1380]

Slots in aluminium - use a router?

Standard Broadband or Fibre optic type?

I think you missed my point..... My current pillar drill sucks, I want to upgrade it to something that will allow me to maybe mill with it....if we're on about using something completely different then I should just smash out a CNC file and get it done externally.... Something I don't want to do if I have the ability and capability to do myself.

Yes I could use a router, but not for steel or to face off something.....certainly not with any accuracy anyway. Plus, if you start using harder aluminium I doubt very much a router cutter would last long at all and probably considerably more dangerous than using a mill of some variety.

[Ethel]

"If we're on about using something completely different then I should just smash out a CNC file and get it done externally" - I think we're on the same sheet actually. If it's a drill you're mainly after then get the one on offer if it's a good price when up and running compared to a purpose made mill-drill that's likely to be more than you want to pay or compromised in throat etc. You can always sell it on and get your money back if it's a genuine bargain.

[rally1380]

[quote name="Ethel" post="3610768" timestamp="1565441528"]
"If we're on about using something completely different then I should just smash out a CNC file and get it done externally" - I think we're on the same sheet actually. If it's a drill you're mainly after then get the one on offer if it's a good price when up and running compared to a purpose made mill-drill that's likely to be more than you want to pay or compromised in throat etc. You can always sell it on and get your money back if it's a genuine bargain.[/]


yes, a bargain considering what they sell for. You're probably right, it's a good drill I'm after, and any capability of 'milling' is purely a luxury.... And a luxury I may never use or indeed need. I'm one of these idiots who likes having kit 'just in case' though! ? Maybe I'll convince where I work to buy a milling machine instead of me forking out for one?

Edited by rally1380, 10 August 2019 - 05:40 PM.