50 replies to this topic

[Ethel]

I'd read the brown bit as indicative of who can send you a share of any road maintenance bill. It's an interesting moot point on whether his neighbour's garage hinders his access, since it hasn't been an issue up to now.

 

It's similar with extensions. you can put your foundations across a neighbouring boundary as long as you make good what you disturbed to do it. That's is all well and good until your neighbour wants an extension too.

[DeadSquare]

No.  It clearly states that the brown area is the householder's access area, but adds a caveat that threatens access being denied if the householder fails to contribute a proportion of the upkeep.

 

It doesn't matter whether the adjacent neighbour's garage has, up to now, hindered access or not.

 

The deeds speak of the future, and should Pusb's house become owned by someone with a Pontiac, the neighbour's garage might well be a hindrance, as it may be now, or shortly become so, when Pusb wishes to get his Mini on the public roads.

 

The developers of the houses, envisaged, and ensured in the issued deeds, that house holders would have reasonable access to the rear of their gardens.  I don't think that they contemplated a light aircraft getting down the lane and into a garden, but by 1936, motor cars were becoming commonplace, and by providing the triangular portion cut off the gardens, they accepted that something less maneuverable than a bicycle or wheel barrow would need to negotiate the corners, and made provision for this in perpetuity, in the deeds to Pusb's property.

[CityEPete]

I had a house with very similar plans, I actually owned the end house, we owned the land including what would be the whole corner in this situation but we had to sign to say we wouldn't block access to the other houses.

[pusb]

Just an update, I have spoken to my local councillor and he is looking into it.

 

He is going to get some advice from the various officers at the council 

[DeadSquare]

Just an update, I have spoken to my local councillor and he is looking into it.

 

He is going to get some advice from the various officers at the council 

 

Let's hope that the councilor and the new neighbour are not Masons.

[paulrockliffe]

There's lots of good advice in vaguely the right areas, but lots of the issues aren't necessarily compatible with each other or the best course of attack.  The Law is relatively complex here and unless you can wade through all the thoughts and ideas here and build your own strategy, you should really be speaking to a solicitor before doing anything else.

 

You should establish the contents of the Neighbour's Deeds; they're £3 a set via the Land Registry, so I would get them for the 4 houses nearest the lane.  You should then speak to the neighbour, tell them that there's an issue and see what they say.  From there you should have a Solicitor on the case.

[Ethel]

Still worth speaking to the "culprit" first, they might see reason. Try and get the other interested parties on board too - the quickest and easiest resolution for all would be to get the new fence panels taken down, so make a case where garages being where they possibly shouldn't be is an irrelevance to that aim. A fixed fee half hour with a solicitor could give you enough "legalese" to convince the other party especially if they get professional advice too. If you go that route get the deeds and any other "evidence" so the solicitor can see it from the outset.

 

 

 

 

[r3k1355]

Get the deeds, get the deeds, get the deeds.

 

If they show they have encroached onto land they do not own it's pretty cut and dry, get the council onto them.

[KTS]

If a house owner on the other side of the side passage "has a similar plan and deeds with the same wording", then the blue fenced area is a present and future hindrance to that house owner, regardless of whether that house owner has ever wished to pass over the triangular area that is marked in blue.

 

 It might well be argued that Pusb may not have the right to pass unhindered over the triangular area marked in blue, because it is not shown in brown on his plan.

 

i'd agree - from the way your deeds are marked out, the landowner arguably has not caused you any 'injury', so i would wonder, from a legal perspective whether you would be able to bring a claim against them

[Magneto]

Having never been there I'm not operating from a position of experience, but I don't see what the problem is....seems like the radius on the inside of the corner is more important than the one on the outside...you have two 8' wide lanes meeting and you have a 4' wide car, seems like there would be plenty of room - at least for your Mini.

 

I'm not sure if the pass and repass rules were written with cars in mind? It could be argued that as long as he can get thru there (be it on foot or horseback) then his access has not been impinged.

 

But again, I'm not there...... 

[blacktulip]

I'm not sure if the pass and repass rules were written with cars in mind? It could be argued that as long as he can get thru there (be it on foot or horseback) then his access has not been impinged.

But again, I'm not there......

This could be a stumbling block. Where does it say for any vehicles? Is it actually classed as a road? Who put the garages up around there? I'm no expert just throwing it out there.

[DeadSquare]

 

I'm not sure if the pass and repass rules were written with cars in mind? It could be argued that as long as he can get thru there (be it on foot or horseback) then his access has not been impinged.

But again, I'm not there......

This could be a stumbling block. Where does it say for any vehicles? Is it actually classed as a road? Who put the garages up around there? I'm no expert just throwing it out there.

 

 

Read what it says in the deed;- 

 

"............full right and liberty for the Purchaser and his successors in title and all other persons authorised by the Vendor from time to time and at all times hereafter and for all purposes to pass and repass over and along that portion of the backway coloured brown on the said plan and the side passage also coloured brown on the said plan ............"

Edited by DeadSquare, 03 September 2019 - 09:23 AM.

[paulrockliffe]

Like I said, needs a solicitor. He can pass and repass as it is. But does he have vehicle access rights for the garage built after the deeds? Have these rights been acquired outside of what's in the deeds? What is the limit and how was that established?

Is it a question of land ownership or right of access? Both might be the best line of attack, it depends. Either approach causes problems for the other so needs the right approach from the start.

[blacktulip]

I'm not sure if the pass and repass rules were written with cars in mind? It could be argued that as long as he can get thru there (be it on foot or horseback) then his access has not been impinged.

But again, I'm not there......

This could be a stumbling block. Where does it say for any vehicles? Is it actually classed as a road? Who put the garages up around there? I'm no expert just throwing it out there.

Read what it says in the deed;-

"............full right and liberty for the Purchaser and his successors in title and all other persons authorised by the Vendor from time to time and at all times hereafter and for all purposes to pass and repass over and along that portion of the backway coloured brown on the said plan and the side passage also coloured brown on the said plan ............"

Sorry to sound thick but does this mean for vehicles then?

[KTS]

if the '..full right and liberty...to pass and repass..' was intended to be restricted to a particular type of traffic it would state that

 

that there is no mention of any restriction would indicate that any reasonable exercise of the right should be enjoyed.

 

is it reasonable to think you should be able to drive a car round there ?  probably.

 

is it reasonable to think you should be able to drive a 44ton artic or a challenger tank round there ?  probably not