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Mot Emissions Failure On 1.3I


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#1 Dave_S

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 01:16 AM

Not sure if I succeeded in posting.  New member, hope I am posting in the right area.

 

We (Wife bought the car) have had our mini since new in Sep 1995.  Mileage 59,751.  Passing the MOT has been getting a little trickier over the past few years and now, this week the garage said to us emissions were "off the scale".  Copy of test result below

 

We love this car, have had it garage maintained.  We'd pay the unrealistsic cost for the rear subframe and boot floor replacement which came out of this MOT but there seems to be no solution to the emissions issue.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

One factor which bears on this is that we are about 0.5 miles outside the London ULEZ emissions charging zone and in a couple of years we will be firmly inside it.

Attached File  2190903 MOT Emissions Data-001.jpg   52.67K   2 downloads



#2 unburntfuelinthemorning

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 07:02 AM

Those HC and CO readings at idle are more what you would expect from a Mini without a catalytic converter.

 

Either the converter needs replacing or the engine management is receiving the wrong information from one or more sensors causing it to react incorrectly.

 

The problem is likely fairly inexpensive to fix regarding parts cost, the trick is finding someone to correctly diagnose it without just throwing parts at it and clocking up a load of labour charges.

 

That ULEZ zone is just draconian.  Most people replace their cars regularly and as new vehicle emissions are constantly falling compared to older ones the stock of vehicles will soon be much cleaner anyway.  The occasional older vehicle among a sea of new ones won't hurt anyone if it's maintanined properly.  The charges appear more like an easy way to raise revenue or am I just being cynical there.  And as usual the greatest burden falls on those with modest incomes who may only just be able to afford to run an older vehicle.



#3 roblightbody

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 08:05 AM

Speaking from experience of running an spi mini, you'll save a lot of grief if you buy yourself the diagnostic computer for it, and learn about it and the correct readings. This is the only way I figured out which sensors had failed on mine, which in turn had destroyed the catalyst over time.

If I remember rightly on mine the two crucial ones were the coolant sensor (check it's not defaulted to a static value causing the car to constantly run rich) and the lambda sensor (should jump from low to high rapidly).

Here's a video I did. https://youtu.be/-viNgiyXjl8

#4 unburntfuelinthemorning

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 09:05 AM

Sykes ACR2 for Rover:

 

https://www.ebay.co....tm/133152532110



#5 roblightbody

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 09:10 AM

Sykes ACR2 for Rover:

https://www.ebay.co....tm/133152532110


Yes! I think pretty much essential to any spi mini owner now.

#6 mina08

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 12:36 PM

probably need a new CAT



#7 Dave_S

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 03:30 PM

Dear all - thanks for these fantastic responses, we feel energised and inspired, perhaps a car that looked like it was a scrapper (despite its awesome condition) may yet have life.

 

Those HC and CO readings at idle are more what you would expect from a Mini without a catalytic converter.

 

Either the converter needs replacing or the engine management is receiving the wrong information from one or more sensors causing it to react incorrectly.

 

The problem is likely fairly inexpensive to fix regarding parts cost, the trick is finding someone to correctly diagnose it without just throwing parts at it and clocking up a load of labour charges.

 

That ULEZ zone is just draconian.  Most people replace their cars regularly and as new vehicle emissions are constantly falling compared to older ones the stock of vehicles will soon be much cleaner anyway.  The occasional older vehicle among a sea of new ones won't hurt anyone if it's maintanined properly.  The charges appear more like an easy way to raise revenue or am I just being cynical there.  And as usual the greatest burden falls on those with modest incomes who may only just be able to afford to run an older vehicle.

As the readings are exceptional and you compare with a non catalytic converter engine, I like the idea that it may be that.  We replace the catalytic converter at 24,465 miles in 2004 with a "used cat" the receipt says, which I am sure I would have agreed to on basis of cost.  Fitted new exhaust and downpipe at the same time. 

 

We replaced the ECU at 18,727 miles.

 

Speaking from experience of running an spi mini, you'll save a lot of grief if you buy yourself the diagnostic computer for it, and learn about it and the correct readings. This is the only way I figured out which sensors had failed on mine, which in turn had destroyed the catalyst over time.

If I remember rightly on mine the two crucial ones were the coolant sensor (check it's not defaulted to a static value causing the car to constantly run rich) and the lambda sensor (should jump from low to high rapidly).

Here's a video I did. https://youtu.be/-viNgiyXjl8

if we get through this episode, I will follow through on this.  Thanks for the video.  Can you diagnose based on those numbers or do you need to track them over time and start the headscratching if any of them wander?

 

 

Sykes ACR2 for Rover:

https://www.ebay.co....tm/133152532110


Yes! I think pretty much essential to any spi mini owner now.

 

I never knew I was an spi mini owner, I have now learnt what spi means.

 

 

probably need a new CAT

I have discussed this with the garage.

 

Sykes ACR2 for Rover:

 

https://www.ebay.co....tm/133152532110

 

So, based on all the feedback I spoke to the garage and they agree that if we replace the catalytic converter, the vacuum pipes and check the sensors it might do something.   We certainly think that it is worth our while spending that money on that and seeing if emissions falls off the "FAIL LIST".  Then we could get the rest of the structural work done.

 

I also suggested that I should take the car for a couple of hundred miles burn as it hasn't done a trip over 10 miles for about 18 months, garage thought that might help too.

 

I couldn't sleep last night, the prospect of losing our mini felt like something akin to a bereavement.  We now feel there is a chance, thanks everyone.  fingers crossed.



#8 Dave_S

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 03:59 PM

Looking back at last year's emissions test, the numbers are so dramatically different to what was recorded this year:

 

Fast Idle

 

CO 0.028 last yr vs 1.982 this year (limit 0.200)

 

HC 22 last year vs 840 this year (limit 200)

 

Something far more significant that mere age has changed hasn't it?  suggesting that diagnostics and replacements as you responders have indicated could hopefully work

20180822%20MOT%20Emissions%20readings-00



#9 roblightbody

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 05:29 PM

If it's not gone further than 10 miles all year, that's a factor I'd say, get it out and get it hot.
The diagnostic acr2 computer will tell you certain things immediately... Your garage may not have the correct diagnostic computer for your car. If you've got one with the car, your garage could use it too.
Is there a mini specialist anywhere near you?

#10 richmondclassicsnorthwales

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 06:40 PM

I will add some words on previous findings from similar episodes

 

Don,t go rushing into the garage straight away, if you can do these simple things first before attracting silly labour costs of £50 per hour plus VAT garage prices, It may save you a few hundred pounds

 

When was the last time the air filter and plugs were changed, additionally, the oil and filter.

 

Next, look and replace the rubber elbows on the bottom of the air filter and the elbows on the ECU, the hard line pipes are normally fine. The rubber elbows can crack and allow extra air in, fooling the ECU to supply extra fuel

 

Then as you do limited runs, short runs around town, give it a good run of about 50 - 60 miles at around 60 - 70 mph. Gives the head a good burn.

 

Just try this £40 first, It is not money wasted but well spent, then ask the garage to look at the readings, then check it in if you wish



#11 Bat

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 07:56 PM

Hi,

What's said above is pretty much the way to go. Only things to ask/add is what's the temperature gauge reading and do the hoses get red hot?

You may be looking at a thermostat problem, preventing the engine getting hot enough...

Cheers :)



#12 Dave_S

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 10:19 PM

If it's not gone further than 10 miles all year, that's a factor I'd say, get it out and get it hot.
The diagnostic acr2 computer will tell you certain things immediately... Your garage may not have the correct diagnostic computer for your car. If you've got one with the car, your garage could use it too.
Is there a mini specialist anywhere near you?

London Mini Centre, Putney.  Every service since 2004 has been done there.  What I meant is we do about 2000 miles a year but round trips no more than 10 miles.  Last time it did over 10 miles was Jan 18 so I think your point confirms what I was thinking

 

 

Hi,

What's said above is pretty much the way to go. Only things to ask/add is what's the temperature gauge reading and do the hoses get red hot?

You may be looking at a thermostat problem, preventing the engine getting hot enough...

Cheers :)

Sometimes the hoses through the passenger compartment get too hot to touch but I am pretty sure we had that fixed, will check tomorrow.

 

I will add some words on previous findings from similar episodes

 

Don,t go rushing into the garage straight away, if you can do these simple things first before attracting silly labour costs of £50 per hour plus VAT garage prices, It may save you a few hundred pounds

 

When was the last time the air filter and plugs were changed, additionally, the oil and filter.

 

Next, look and replace the rubber elbows on the bottom of the air filter and the elbows on the ECU, the hard line pipes are normally fine. The rubber elbows can crack and allow extra air in, fooling the ECU to supply extra fuel

 

Then as you do limited runs, short runs around town, give it a good run of about 50 - 60 miles at around 60 - 70 mph. Gives the head a good burn.

 

Just try this £40 first, It is not money wasted but well spent, then ask the garage to look at the readings, then check it in if you wish

Air filter, oil filter, oil, spark plugs all changed August 2018, 1009 miles ago.  The garage says we can do all this before resubmitting for MOT next week. 1009 miles sounds like nothing but with the measurements we achived I would imagine at if things are dirty that at the least replacing the sparkplugs wouldn't do any harm.

 

In the past few months there has been a distinctly richer oily smell in the passenger compartment after driving. 

 

I'm going to give it a blast like you suggest next Tuesday before taking it back into the garage.



#13 richmondclassicsnorthwales

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:01 AM

OK - Good - do check the rubber elbows as well I spoke about, they are not expensive at all - Good luck !!



#14 genpop

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 05:38 PM

SWITCH TO THIS SIDE.http://www.theminifo...pecific-spimpi/

possibly you may find a mini club in your area with a code reader and somebody who will help you.Additionally there are a lot of tips to find faults yourself.

As mentioned before, change (replace) the vacuum hoses with 3mm silicone ones. Drive the car for a longer distance.If water temp on the gauge stays in the cold area have the sender changed.If you state your problems on that side , a lot of other people will  answer. I would change the catalyst at the last option!

Good luck






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