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Changing Engine Size


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#1 Oakesy

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 05:14 PM

Looking at putting a bigger engine into my 850, just wondering what issues this could rise with DVLA etc. The entire car is being rebuilt so swapping other bits out as needed isn't the issue. Looking more at the legal side of things



#2 DeadSquare

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 05:45 PM

Most people,"Just do it".

 

There was a time in the late 70s when insurance companies jumped up and down about a 998 or an 848 with a 1300 engine being a Cooper S in all but name, but without S stopping power.

 

From a couple of Lloyd's Motor Underwriters. I got written confirmation that reconditioning an engine with a replacement crank and a rebore, did not require subsequent notification, and until 1300 Minis became widespread, I regularly turned 1,000 minis into 1,200s

 

I believe that Mr. Dodd, who is a valued contributor here, can do something very similar with an 850 engine.



#3 Rorf

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 06:13 PM

Hey as long as you don't put a supercharger in, insurance company wont be happy with that. O_O



#4 smudger068

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 07:47 AM

When I changed mine to my micra conversion I just had to change my logbook engine number and engine size. Then obviously tell the insurance what engine size it was.
Insurance could tell mine was originally a 1000 as soon as they put the reg in.

#5 Ethel

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 10:48 AM

It's worth getting it all recorded correctly. You don't want to find out your insurers really would have objected by making a claim. They're likely to become much more interested than they were when taking your money.

 

It shouldn't be an issue with the DVSA, but they're likely to ask for some evidence, such as a letter on headed paper from a garage - God knows why they seem to be unable to countenance the idea of a car owner picking up a spanner themselves!

 

I'm sure you'll have realised upgrading the brakes to factory fitted 1275 Mini specs, or better, will make selling the idea to an insurer easier, but some will still want to charge you over the odds just because they can - shop around for quotes before doing the swap.



#6 Oakesy

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 11:44 AM

Thanks Guys,

 

I plan to upgrade a fair amount of it but keep it looking as original as I can, just better brakes, suspension etc



#7 beardylondon

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 12:47 PM

If you do it, and quite rightly go to change it on the V5, you will get a letter from the DVSA saying you have to provide proof where where the engine has been fitted and/or come from. As said above, just send them what you have, they should be ok with it, just depends if you get a jobsworth, they might want to inspect it.



#8 sonscar

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 04:34 PM

I was under the impression that if it is registered as Historic there was no requirement to show where the motor came from?Steve..



#9 Ethel

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 05:19 PM

Aren't there other, quite complex, regulations about engine swaps in Historics?

 

Don't think any of it applies here though.



#10 cal844

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 05:50 PM

You'll need to get a letter on garage headed paper with your reg number, vin and new engine number. Get them to state that the engine is fitted correctly and runs as it should

#11 Stu1961

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 08:00 PM

I'm going from 998 to a 1275 originally from a Metro, re-bored to 1293. I am adamant that I want to do it by the book by being honest with the DVLA/SA and any insurance company I choose to use. Have gathered as much info together as I possibly can, I'm hoping what I have will be enough to keep the DVLA/SA happy. I'm in the exact same boat as you Oakesy this is what I have gleaned so far in my search for what must be done to keep the powers that be happy

 

I have an engine number for the 1275 I think this is vitally important as even though I don't have the original details of the actual car (reg no) it came from pretty sure they ask this question somewhere. There is certainly documentary evidence out there on the net which proves the engine originally came from a Metro 1.3 HLE, the engine will use the box from my original 998. I also have a letter headed receipt for the 1275 from the reclamation company I purchased it from.

 

As Ethel has already said the need to get a local garage to carry out and or check the installation is a bit stupid but so be it, if they want it we will have to provide, One thing I do remember reading somewhere on the DVLA site was them asking if you still had in your possession the original engine from your car and what you proposed doing with it in the future, I can only assume and I could well be wrong that this maybe something to do with the provenance of the original specification your vehicle was. Personally, I feel it may be wise to keep the original engine whatever its condition and especially so if you are certain it is the engine the car left the factory with. I get the impression that the DVLA/SA will or should have no issues with you uprating your braking system, if you have gone for example from drums to discs or installed a servo tell them that you have it could make your life easier though having said that the brakes have no relevance to the 14 point rule when restoring a classic car. 

 

Hope this helps you a bit and hope it all comes across ok, I am moderately dyslexic (thank god for spell checkers) so any further responses to your post may help me find out if I have understood things correctly myself.

 

 

One other thing I did was take loads of pictures as purchased of the 1275 before start of the rebuild with the engine number tag still attached.   



#12 andyt

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 10:28 PM

I changed from a 998 to a metro 1275, I sent my log book with the new engine number thinking they would simply make changes to the logbook. I recieved a letter back requesting that I got an engineer's report stating that the engine was the one that bore the numbers supplied and that it was fitted to a good standard.

#13 Stu1961

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 12:27 AM

I changed from a 998 to a metro 1275, I sent my log book with the new engine number thinking they would simply make changes to the logbook. I recieved a letter back requesting that I got an engineer's report stating that the engine was the one that bore the numbers supplied and that it was fitted to a good standard.

 

You are right and to prove beyond doubt the engine is the one that you have a number for is impossible, on the other hand it would also be impossible for an auto engineer to confirm that too the only thing he could do was ensure a correct and safe installation that's why I feel taking pictures before rebuild and especially so if the block is going to be skimmed necessitating removal of the plate. Its a difficult one to overcome but you may just have got that jobsworth someone mentioned in an earlier post.

 

In hindsight the mistake I made is that the engine number is not recorded on the receipt for the purchase of my 1275 all it states is '1275 engine from a 1989 Austin Metro' Would be interesting to know how you overcame the problem you had?

 

Once that plate has been removed the engine is virtually unidentifiable but my way of thinking is, if you have the pictures before plate removal and you can prove you still have the plate by physically having it in your possession and offering it for inspection then that's as much as you can do. The engine was purchased from the reclamation company via eBay, at the time of purchase I also took  screen shots of the sellers advert and all the pictures within it of my engine. My initial pictures taken in my garage before the engine was touched and with the plate still attached confirm beyond reasonable doubt (in my opinion) the engine is the same one. Just hope the man at the DVLA looks upon me favourably come the time, if not I will rebuild the 998 which came in the car originally the number of which matches the V5.        



#14 IronmanG

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 07:53 AM

Hey as long as you don't put a supercharger in, insurance company wont be happy with that. O_O



Does that make a big difference then. What sort of percentage increase you looking at

#15 stoneface

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 08:41 AM

When I changed engine a few years ago I asked a friendly garage to write a letter on headed paper with the following;

 

Dear Sir,

I hereby confirm that the vehicle with registration number ........................ is fitted with a 1700cc petrol engine. The engine number is ....................

 

That is all the letter contained. Just one line.

 

Sent it off with the V5 and it came back done.






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