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Front Subframe And Suspension Parts


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#1 JonnyAlpha

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Posted 31 January 2020 - 02:20 PM

Hi;

 

I am building up a spare front subframe ready for an engine change.

I have the Subframe and managed to pick up some SH Adjustable Lower Arms with Rose Joints, Heavy Duty Adjustable Tie Bars, Tower Bolts, Lower Arm Pins, Top Arms, Poly Bump Stops, Disc Hubs and Brand New red Dot Doughnuts.

 

I will be refurbishing all of the parts and just need some advice on the build, extras and finishings. So please take a look at my thoughts / questions below and if you are able to advise then please do.

 

v2vxSCL.jpg

 

UFbaGO5.jpg

 

Top Arms

 

Happy with the Top Arms - going to get a couple of Top Arm Repair Kits

 

Lower Arms

 

There is a little bit of damage on the Hub ends of the lower Arms, I guess from removing the Ball Joints, would it be ok to either file this down either manually or with a fine grade angle grinder?  

I am a little confused as to exactly what I need, I have the pins but because I have the Adjustable Lower Arms with Rose Joints, I can't figure out which bushes and bits I need.

I appear to need the rubber dust covers and a 3/8th Nut and Lock Washer.

I also think I need the Rose Joint Spacers but not sure what bushes I need, standard bushes or poly upgraded bushes or as I have adjustable Tie Bars and Lower Arms do I need these Fast Road Lower Arm Bushes.

 

Finishing - once cleaned up I was going to etch prime the main arms and top coat with engine enamel. For the piece that holds the Rose Joint in, i would like to get it re-plated but may not be possible as the rose joint is installed? If I just clean up the metal whats the best way to protect it?

 

Tie Bars

So I need some poly / rubber buses, 7/16 Lock Nuts, Cup Washers and 7/16 Heavy Duty Washers, 7/16 Lock Nut, Tie Bar to Lower Arm 5/16 Bolt, nut and lock washer.

Once cleaned up I may get the re-plated or paint them - not sure what colour though as they look good metal?

 

Subframe

Once I have stripped all the paint off, is it worth welding it up anywhere to strengthen it?

I also need some metal spacers to sit underneath the lower bump stops (Rebound Buffer).

For the tower bolts I need the washers and upper / lower rubber washers.

I'll also need some Engine Mounts and Bolts, going to go with the mounts with embedded nuts. 

 

I am going to paint the Subframe with two part Epoxy Primer and then Top Coat with Celly (OEW) to match the rear one - mad colour I know.

 

Many thanks



#2 nicklouse

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Posted 31 January 2020 - 02:30 PM

If using those bottom arms you must have rubber boots fitted. But I would just swap the rose joints out for the parts that use the rubber bushes. If using them as is you have everything less the seals/boots.

 

tie bars get the MiniSpares set up. One Polly and one rubber each side.



#3 AP2020

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Posted 05 February 2020 - 07:35 PM

Your RJ bottom arms would be better using these.. 

 

http://www.minispare...68.aspx|Back to

 

Then they will last you quite some time, ie just like any other ball joint that is protected, also these will allow you to reduce your camber angle so increasing braking, acceleration and handling, road holding.

 

If you plan to use 4 pots or 6 pot calipers in the future you will need round tie bars NOT the square ones that can be dangerous on full lock and rebound.  the hub has been 

 

Yes there are lots of points on the subframe that benefit being welded up, firstly all the seams, then add gusset plates at the tie bar ears to support them as decent brakes will pull them off, extra plating under the bump stop and rear mounting plate areas.  



#4 sonscar

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 08:11 AM

I thought that the bearing spacers were matched to the bearings.I would have tried to keep them and the races in their original running positions.Steve..



#5 JonnyAlpha

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 09:15 PM

Your RJ bottom arms would be better using these.. 

 

http://www.minispare...68.aspx|Back to

 

Then they will last you quite some time, ie just like any other ball joint that is protected, also these will allow you to reduce your camber angle so increasing braking, acceleration and handling, road holding.

 

If you plan to use 4 pots or 6 pot calipers in the future you will need round tie bars NOT the square ones that can be dangerous on full lock and rebound.  the hub has been 

 

Yes there are lots of points on the subframe that benefit being welded up, firstly all the seams, then add gusset plates at the tie bar ears to support them as decent brakes will pull them off, extra plating under the bump stop and rear mounting plate areas.  

 

Thanks for the link to the RJ Boots - these never came up in any search, definitely get them. Also found the spacers to use with the rose joints. So thats the lower arms sorted.

 

Looks like I'll have to pick up a bottle of Argon / CO2 mix then to weld up the Subframe once I have stripped it. Not planning on 4 or 6 pots as I will be running 10 inch wheels. I do have a set of 4 Pot Calipers that, if I don't sell them, I may have a go at grinding down :-) 



#6 JonnyAlpha

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 09:16 PM

I thought that the bearing spacers were matched to the bearings.I would have tried to keep them and the races in their original running positions.Steve..

?



#7 JonnyAlpha

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 09:17 PM

If using those bottom arms you must have rubber boots fitted. But I would just swap the rose joints out for the parts that use the rubber bushes. If using them as is you have everything less the seals/boots.

 

tie bars get the MiniSpares set up. One Polly and one rubber each side.

 

Yes these are on my list.



#8 nicklouse

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 09:22 PM

 

If using those bottom arms you must have rubber boots fitted. But I would just swap the rose joints out for the parts that use the rubber bushes. If using them as is you have everything less the seals/boots.

 

tie bars get the MiniSpares set up. One Polly and one rubber each side.

 

Yes these are on my list.

 

If you are not going to go rose joints on the bottom arms contact Simon about the rubber bush parts that you need. 
as they are available. But separately officially.

http://www.minispare...|Back to search



#9 sonscar

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 12:56 AM

Sorry,replied to your other thread where you have separated all the wheel bearing parts.Apologies if you have in fact marked them so they fit in their original positions.Steve..

#10 AP2020

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 03:32 AM

 

Your RJ bottom arms would be better using these.. 

 

http://www.minispare...68.aspx|Back to

 

Then they will last you quite some time, ie just like any other ball joint that is protected, also these will allow you to reduce your camber angle so increasing braking, acceleration and handling, road holding.

 

If you plan to use 4 pots or 6 pot calipers in the future you will need round tie bars NOT the square ones that can be dangerous on full lock and rebound.  the hub has been 

 

Yes there are lots of points on the subframe that benefit being welded up, firstly all the seams, then add gusset plates at the tie bar ears to support them as decent brakes will pull them off, extra plating under the bump stop and rear mounting plate areas.  

 

Thanks for the link to the RJ Boots - these never came up in any search, definitely get them. Also found the spacers to use with the rose joints. So thats the lower arms sorted.

 

Looks like I'll have to pick up a bottle of Argon / CO2 mix then to weld up the Subframe once I have stripped it. Not planning on 4 or 6 pots as I will be running 10 inch wheels. I do have a set of 4 Pot Calipers that, if I don't sell them, I may have a go at grinding down :-)

 

 

Grinding down ? ok so you have Metro 4 pots and need to get them under 10" wheels, this is not something to be taken lightly as incorrect processes could lead to a ....  RTA .. if you weld them they will need to be heat treated by a specialist company to remove the hardness as this will lead to fracture otherwise.  



#11 nicklouse

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 10:38 AM

 

 

Your RJ bottom arms would be better using these.. 

 

http://www.minispare...68.aspx|Back to

 

Then they will last you quite some time, ie just like any other ball joint that is protected, also these will allow you to reduce your camber angle so increasing braking, acceleration and handling, road holding.

 

If you plan to use 4 pots or 6 pot calipers in the future you will need round tie bars NOT the square ones that can be dangerous on full lock and rebound.  the hub has been 

 

Yes there are lots of points on the subframe that benefit being welded up, firstly all the seams, then add gusset plates at the tie bar ears to support them as decent brakes will pull them off, extra plating under the bump stop and rear mounting plate areas.  

 

Thanks for the link to the RJ Boots - these never came up in any search, definitely get them. Also found the spacers to use with the rose joints. So thats the lower arms sorted.

 

Looks like I'll have to pick up a bottle of Argon / CO2 mix then to weld up the Subframe once I have stripped it. Not planning on 4 or 6 pots as I will be running 10 inch wheels. I do have a set of 4 Pot Calipers that, if I don't sell them, I may have a go at grinding down :-)

 

 

Grinding down ? ok so you have Metro 4 pots and need to get them under 10" wheels, this is not something to be taken lightly as incorrect processes could lead to a ....  RTA .. if you weld them they will need to be heat treated by a specialist company to remove the hardness as this will lead to fracture otherwise.  

 

Oh I remember the days of grinding down calipers. When they were 10 a penny. Don’t waste your time. The high points that need grinding are normally there as they are needed to keep the fluid on the inside. If you want 10s then get the correct calipers. 
ps spacers nope. Bearings will not last.



#12 JonnyAlpha

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 07:44 PM

 

 

 

Your RJ bottom arms would be better using these.. 

 

http://www.minispare...68.aspx|Back to

 

Then they will last you quite some time, ie just like any other ball joint that is protected, also these will allow you to reduce your camber angle so increasing braking, acceleration and handling, road holding.

 

If you plan to use 4 pots or 6 pot calipers in the future you will need round tie bars NOT the square ones that can be dangerous on full lock and rebound.  the hub has been 

 

Yes there are lots of points on the subframe that benefit being welded up, firstly all the seams, then add gusset plates at the tie bar ears to support them as decent brakes will pull them off, extra plating under the bump stop and rear mounting plate areas.  

 

Thanks for the link to the RJ Boots - these never came up in any search, definitely get them. Also found the spacers to use with the rose joints. So thats the lower arms sorted.

 

Looks like I'll have to pick up a bottle of Argon / CO2 mix then to weld up the Subframe once I have stripped it. Not planning on 4 or 6 pots as I will be running 10 inch wheels. I do have a set of 4 Pot Calipers that, if I don't sell them, I may have a go at grinding down :-)

 

 

Grinding down ? ok so you have Metro 4 pots and need to get them under 10" wheels, this is not something to be taken lightly as incorrect processes could lead to a ....  RTA .. if you weld them they will need to be heat treated by a specialist company to remove the hardness as this will lead to fracture otherwise.  

 

Oh I remember the days of grinding down calipers. When they were 10 a penny. Don’t waste your time. The high points that need grinding are normally there as they are needed to keep the fluid on the inside. If you want 10s then get the correct calipers. 
ps spacers nope. Bearings will not last.

 

 

Did you mean spacers to enable fitting larger calipers? Not something I was considering :-) 

Iv'e only got one set of 4 Pot Calipers to remove from my last Metro and I'll probably try selling them anyway. 



#13 no66

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 11:56 AM

Remember seeing a Sierra Coswoth disappear of the track and into the woods at about 150km/h! Car was totalt, but the 2 in the car were ok. 

Ground down calipers........



#14 AP2020

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 03:05 AM

 

 

 

Your RJ bottom arms would be better using these.. 

 

http://www.minispare...68.aspx|Back to

 

Then they will last you quite some time, ie just like any other ball joint that is protected, also these will allow you to reduce your camber angle so increasing braking, acceleration and handling, road holding.

 

If you plan to use 4 pots or 6 pot calipers in the future you will need round tie bars NOT the square ones that can be dangerous on full lock and rebound.  the hub has been 

 

Yes there are lots of points on the subframe that benefit being welded up, firstly all the seams, then add gusset plates at the tie bar ears to support them as decent brakes will pull them off, extra plating under the bump stop and rear mounting plate areas.  

 

Thanks for the link to the RJ Boots - these never came up in any search, definitely get them. Also found the spacers to use with the rose joints. So thats the lower arms sorted.

 

Looks like I'll have to pick up a bottle of Argon / CO2 mix then to weld up the Subframe once I have stripped it. Not planning on 4 or 6 pots as I will be running 10 inch wheels. I do have a set of 4 Pot Calipers that, if I don't sell them, I may have a go at grinding down :-)

 

 

Grinding down ? ok so you have Metro 4 pots and need to get them under 10" wheels, this is not something to be taken lightly as incorrect processes could lead to a ....  RTA .. if you weld them they will need to be heat treated by a specialist company to remove the hardness as this will lead to fracture otherwise.  

 

Oh I remember the days of grinding down calipers. When they were 10 a penny. Don’t waste your time. The high points that need grinding are normally there as they are needed to keep the fluid on the inside. If you want 10s then get the correct calipers. 
ps spacers nope. Bearings will not last.

 

 

You don't actually need to grind the caliper down to make it work (Note, I still don't recommend it)  you only have to offset the fixing holes and they will work under 10" wheels, however the main issues are metallurgical in nature as the welding (to fill up the old holes) will change the metals state of hardness and can also make them brittle, ie lethal if done incorrectly, you need specialist heat treatment ovens to make them safe again.

 

You mentioned wheel spacers damaging your wheel bearings ?  this is not necessarily true as there are other factors involved like wheel offset, the OP could for instance use a set of Metro turbo rims and suitable spacers to put the wheel in the correct position, there are some nasty wheel spacers available, not sure if you can still buy them new but years ago you could get some that had a screw on bolt/nut combo that then had a cast spacer placed over them to stop the bolts from unscrewing, never liked them as I thought they were dangerous.






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