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Torquing The Cylinder Head - Concerns!


Best Answer postve , 13 February 2020 - 04:13 PM

Whenever I fit a head I start by tightening in the correct sequence to 25 ft.lbs. then I torque again this time to 35 to 40 ft.lbs and then finally to the 48 ft.lbs I always use.
I run through two complete heat cycles and then re-torque in the correct sequence. When doing this final torque-up I back each head nut off by 1/2 a turn before final torque is applied. This is done in the correct sequence and one at a time.
With regards to installing the studs I just put a slight 'nip' on each one.


Thank you Cooperman as I recall seeing your response at some time in the past as above. I will leverage both your feedback and Pops_Guild as I do this again.

It kind of makes sense to dyshipfakta point as the original stud was probably defective - another lesson learned is change the studs if they have a long history to them as the cost is minimal to the effort to remove the same if you break it off in the block or any other situation that one can encounter. Go to the full post


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#16 Cooperman

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 09:45 PM

As a cautionary note, I recall many years ago snapping a head stud (it was probably defective because I was within torque limits) flush with the block. I decided to use an 'Easy Out' stud extractor to remove the stub. Well the extractor also snapped flush with the block top. 

It was impossible to drill the Easy-Out stub from the block because it was tool steel. 

In the end a friend had a dentist's drill which we used to drill around the edge of the stud/block, then use a small chisel to get the stud out. It was then a case of drilling out and fitting a Heli-Coil, but I had to make up,a small drill jig to ensure the tapping drill & the tap went in absolutely vertically.

I have never tried using an Easy-Out since that day about 25 years ago.



#17 postve

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 09:59 PM

As a cautionary note, I recall many years ago snapping a head stud (it was probably defective because I was within torque limits) flush with the block. I decided to use an 'Easy Out' stud extractor to remove the stub. Well the extractor also snapped flush with the block top. 

It was impossible to drill the Easy-Out stub from the block because it was tool steel. 

In the end a friend had a dentist's drill which we used to drill around the edge of the stud/block, then use a small chisel to get the stud out. It was then a case of drilling out and fitting a Heli-Coil, but I had to make up,a small drill jig to ensure the tapping drill & the tap went in absolutely vertically.

I have never tried using an Easy-Out since that day about 25 years ago.

 

@@@@@

 

Good lord Cooperman, this is EXACTLY what happened to me a month or so ago - almost to the word!!!  I had to take the car - engine in - to my old mechanic and he removed by welding a nut to the top of the stud - as I mentioned earlier -@120pds  - I will NEVER EVER use easy outs, not because they don't work, more so because what I did was apply too much pressure and snapped it off - lesson learned. (Manual even warns of doing this - Ughh)  My reality is at the end of the day if something goes wrong when working on my mini, 99% of the time I am to blame - lol - love these cars:)

 

 

 

 


Edited by postve, 13 February 2020 - 10:10 PM.


#18 postve

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 10:15 PM

For the record

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#19 mini13

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 10:27 AM

I also use 45 ftlb with the arps, I'm sure that's what they state with their lube.

Without looking it up the 55 ftlb could be a dry figure.

#20 nicklouse

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 10:34 AM

I also use 45 ftlb with the arps, I'm sure that's what they state with their lube.
 

It is.



#21 postve

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 12:24 PM

Thank you guys as 55 ibs is madness IMHO.

Here it is so far as too cold last night to attach carb. Waiting a few days to finish it up and will torqued to 45psi

I had spacers but could not get the damn things to line up the rockers properly, so put the springs back on but still slightly off on some - welcome any and all critical constructive thoughts!!


Thank you guys as 55 ibs is madness IMHO.

Here it is so far as too cold last night to attach carb. Waiting a few days to finish it up and will torqued to 45psi

I had spacers but could not get the damn things to line up the rockers properly, so put the springs back on but still slightly off on some - welcome any and all critical constructive thoughts!!

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Edited by postve, 14 February 2020 - 06:00 PM.


#22 sonscar

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 01:37 PM

I thought that the rockers were slightly off was because they used the same assembly with small and large bore motors,so nearly right with both.(I could have remembered this wrong though).Steve..



#23 postve

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 02:01 PM

Sonscar, you might have a point as here is original setup by the last owner

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#24 Cooperman

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 02:39 PM

On a high performance engine I always shim the rocker shaft and then use space tubes to get the rocker pads to sit over the valve tips. That can slightly increase the valve train noise, but I think it is the best thing to do.
As a side note, the original pressed steel rockers are great. However, with a high-revving engine with stronger valve springs it is a good idea to run a line of weld across the top of the rockers and polish the weld back.

#25 postve

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 03:15 PM

Thx Cooperman,

As mentioned I got the head from Calver and had a long dialogue as to my focus on lower end torque and not so much high speed. The springs are 220IBS and I got the Calver 1.4.1 rockers to compliments along with my BP255 Cam to maximize the build to suite my needs.

Are you saying to weld the new rockers or just looking at my old setup?

#26 Cooperman

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 05:12 PM

If the rocker shaft shown in the photo above is the one which you are gong to be using, then if it were me I would replace the horizontal springs on the shaft with tube and use steel washers against the rocker arms and pillars to schieve correct positioning. You can then use aluminium tube as the actual spacers, carefully and accurately cut to allow each rocker to float between 0.004" and 0.008". Those are the figures I normally work to and I have had no problems even on engines revving to c.7000 rpm. There is plenty of ol in the rocker area and with tubular spacers no end loads.

#27 postve

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 05:26 PM

Ya I was at Lowes the other day and saw tubes that would fit as the C-AEG932 I got from minispares require too many washers, IMHO.

 

I will take your advise again Cooperman - makes sense.

 

This is the current engine setup

 

http://www.theminifo...ttach_id=205112


Edited by postve, 14 February 2020 - 05:58 PM.


#28 Spider

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 06:23 PM

When I have them, if using factory Rockers, the Pressed ones are my preference. There is small and big bore versions though. You can use Big Bore types on either engine but you can't use (or it's rather risky) Small Bore types on the Big Bore engines. I can't quite see to be absolutely sure, but the rockers on postve's photo above appear to be small bore types.



#29 postve

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 06:32 PM

When I have them, if using factory Rockers, the Pressed ones are my preference. There is small and big bore versions though. You can use Big Bore types on either engine but you can't use (or it's rather risky) Small Bore types on the Big Bore engines. I can't quite see to be absolutely sure, but the rockers on postve's photo above appear to be small bore types.

I got these ones Moke  -https://www.calverst...tio-rocker-kit/






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