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Early Vs Late Hubs, Drive Joints, Flanges, Wheel Bearings.


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#1 Tomm

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 12:20 PM

Hello Chaps. 

 

It has been a very long time since i have been on here, I have recently dug my long forgotten project out and am in need of some help. 

 

The car is a 1967 MK2 and has a mixture of parts fitted. My spares box is full off all sorts and i have encountered a problem that i need some guidance with. 

 

I have recently rebuilt my swivel hubs, new bearings and ball joints and all rebuilt. Last night i fitted my CV Drive joint into the hub, with a disc and 7.5" drive Flange. I torqued the hub nut up to the haynes quoted settings and my disc fouls on my hub significatnly. Its stuck solid. I have removed the 7.5" disc and drive flange and fitted a 8.4" drive flange only with no disc and this appears to be sitting correctly on the drive joint. the 7.5" and 8.4" drive flanges appear to be the same depth on a visual inspection however later today I will do the same with the 7.5" drive flange just to confirm it sits correctly. 

 

Is there a chance that i have a mixture of early and late parts all put together here? Or have i missed a part out of the wheel bearing assembly (anything is possible, i must have taken these apart 4 years ago now). 

 

Can anyone please advise me as to why my disc is pressed up against my hub? Any help would be super. 



#2 nicklouse

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 12:57 PM

Yes there is a difference in the hubs. And something does not work together.

#3 Tomm

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 12:59 PM

Thanks for the reply.

As I suspected. Is there any way to tell what hub I have got? I’m thinking the issue is in the Cv drive joint. Is there a difference in wheel bearings for the early and late hubs?

Thanks again.

#4 Moke Spider

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 05:29 PM

Thanks for the reply.

As I suspected. Is there any way to tell what hub I have got? I’m thinking the issue is in the Cv drive joint. Is there a difference in wheel bearings for the early and late hubs?

Thanks again.

 

The Nose on the early hubs that clear the 7.5" discs is tapered but plain. The later ones that usually foul the 7.5" Discs have a step in them.



#5 nicklouse

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 05:32 PM

You say the disc is fouling but you don’t say where. More info would help. But other than the above it should all work. Unless worn out or missing.

#6 Tomm

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Posted 28 March 2020 - 08:53 PM

Thanks very much for the help guys. 

 

My hubs have a taper and not the step. 

 

The 7.5" assembly i have fouls on the hub becase it seems to travel too far down the CV joint, The disc then buts up tight to the face of the hub. It isnt fouling on the cylinderical area of the hub but the area where you would mount your caliper. I have since put a 8.4" flange and disc on the hub, torqued it up as required and it feels fine. 

 

I changed the brakes on my last SPi, from 8.4" to 7.5" with a mini spares kit, but I can't remember the details of how I did it... I do remember my discs fouled on the cylindrical section of the hub, to get around this I turned a very small amount out of the bell, when I researched I found this was because of a worn casting for the hubs, which resulted in a bit of an over size on the later hubs. I am also almost certain that the hubs I have now are the ones that were originally fitted to the car with 7.5" discs. Do 7.5" and 8.4" calipers have the same offset and back mark? 

 

Thanks or all of the help once again. 



#7 Moke Spider

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Posted 28 March 2020 - 10:54 PM

OK, just wondering then in this case if the Disc is fully seated to the flange?  They can appear this way, but not necessarily so.

 

Fit some washers over the wheel studs and then pull the disc in to the flange by winding nuts on tight.

 

I've not measured the off-set between the 7.5" and 8.4" Calipers, but off hand they would be quite similar.



#8 nicklouse

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Posted 28 March 2020 - 11:48 PM

as above the discs are not seated on the flange correctly (or to put it another-way the drive flange is not seated in the disc correctly)

 

Disc face to hub clearances are very different between the two disc types. 7.5 have next to no gap while the 8.4s have a few mm clearance.



#9 Tomm

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 08:34 AM

OK, just wondering then in this case if the Disc is fully seated to the flange?  They can appear this way, but not necessarily so.

 

Fit some washers over the wheel studs and then pull the disc in to the flange by winding nuts on tight.

 

I've not measured the off-set between the 7.5" and 8.4" Calipers, but off hand they would be quite similar.

 

I visited the garage the day you posted this and realised I had already tightened the flange down on the wheel studs, however I took the drive flange off of the disc, cleaned it all and reassembled it and once again, the problem persists. 

 

I took an 8.4" drive flange and a 7.5" drive flange with no disc and torqued it down on the hub, the 7.5" disc sat 2mm closer (measured from the inside mating face of the hub to the outward face of the caliper mounting bracket) However the discs are considerably deeper on the 7.5". Looking at photos of the stepped front hub it seems as though the collar inside the hub which separates the inner and outer wheel bearings is much further towards the outer edge of the hub than what my taper hubs have. I did measure them but that measurement is written down in the garage. 

 

Can anyone please confirm for me, Does a spacer go between the outer wheel bearing and the drive flange? 



#10 nicklouse

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 09:44 AM

There is no difference in the assembly between the two types other than the drive flange inserts into the dis on the S ones. I would be checking the condition of the parts in the hub presuming the S parts are new.

 

like already said the clearance between the disc and the hub is different on both types.



#11 nicklouse

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 10:00 AM

Just thinking here. Pictures please and info on the exact contact point(s) 



#12 Moke Spider

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 10:36 AM

 

Can anyone please confirm for me, Does a spacer go between the outer wheel bearing and the drive flange? 

 

 

There's no spacer

 

YT6zmUP.jpg

 

 



#13 Tomm

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 10:51 AM

As I suspected. I will try and grab some photos tonight.

The parts are not new, but we’re all removed from a car I was running and was working 100% fine. The 8.4” parts I’m using to check with are from a 97 injected mini I converted a number of years ago and just kept the spare from.

I’ll post some photos up tonight. Thanks.

#14 Tomm

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 07:57 AM

Hello once again. 

 

I have taken a photo here of the exact items i am using. I have tried to highlight the areas which are making contaxct as it wasnt overly obvious from the photo. 

 

I took the wheel bearing back out yesterday, just to check i hadnt assembled it incorrectly and everything seems to be as it should, I even easureed the bearings to see if one is deeper once assembled than the other, but it is not. only the outer seals seem to vary and i have them on the correct way as well. Should there be a circlip or something on the CV joint? 

 

If i take the CV joint and a bare 7.5" &8.4"  drive flange and slide them onto the CV joint with no disc and away from the hub, the 7.5" disc slides down the spline significantly further than the 8.4" disc. Is this normal? 

 

Anyway, here is a few photos of the parts I am using. Highlighted in red is the main areas of contact. 

 

49724181228_7537e3230b_c.jpg

 

49724180763_d5ddbdcb5f_c.jpg

 

49725038727_70146d1ee7_c.jpg

 

49725038772_316056dd33_c.jpg

 

49726495421_6c93722c61_c.jpg

 

Any help again would be fantastic. Thanks. 



#15 nicklouse

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 08:41 AM

I don’t remember the drive flange sitting that proud of the disc.

 

what is the the drive flange to disc surface like?






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