Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Early Vs Late Hubs, Drive Joints, Flanges, Wheel Bearings.


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#16 Quinlan minor

Quinlan minor

    One Carb Or Two?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 959 posts
  • Location: London
  • Local Club: LSMOC

Posted 02 April 2020 - 08:48 AM

It may be the photograph but the bearing/oil seal looks like it's recessed in the hub. Could the spacer be undersized?

Can you measure the bearing face (inner) to bearing face (outer) and does anyone out there have a hub handy to measure theirs?



#17 Spider

Spider

    Moved Into The Garage

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,845 posts
  • Location: NSW
  • Local Club: South Australian Moke Club

Posted 02 April 2020 - 09:46 AM

It may be the photograph but the bearing/oil seal looks like it's recessed in the hub. Could the spacer be undersized?

Can you measure the bearing face (inner) to bearing face (outer) and does anyone out there have a hub handy to measure theirs?

 

http://www.theminifo...wheel-bearings/

 



#18 Spider

Spider

    Moved Into The Garage

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,845 posts
  • Location: NSW
  • Local Club: South Australian Moke Club

Posted 02 April 2020 - 09:49 AM

I don’t remember the drive flange sitting that proud of the disc.

 

what is the the drive flange to disc surface like?

 

I'm a little inclined to say the same, but in one of the pics where the countersunk screw is out, you can see the Flange is seated.



#19 Tomm

Tomm

    Up Into Fourth

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,459 posts
  • Location: Rochester, Kent

Posted 02 April 2020 - 12:48 PM

Thanks for the replies. I will get out to the garage once I’ve finished work and check some things and report back.

Moke spider, you certainly know your stuff. Do we think the wheel bearing could be assembled incorrectly?

#20 Spider

Spider

    Moved Into The Garage

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,845 posts
  • Location: NSW
  • Local Club: South Australian Moke Club

Posted 02 April 2020 - 05:24 PM

Moke spider, you certainly know your stuff. Do we think the wheel bearing could be assembled incorrectly?

 

Tomm, thanks for the kind words.

 

I can't see how the wheel bearing could be assembled incorrectly. Just on that, what brand / type of Wheel Bearing assy is it ?

 

There's clearly an error here and the more I'm seeing and think about this, the more I'm beginning to think it's one of the components rather than an assembly error.

 

Have you the Disc and Flange off the other side ? Does that spin OK ?

 

Maybe swap them out and if that works, mark them so you don't get them mixed up, then try it with the other flange and the fitting disc and then likewise with the disc.

 

The Drive Flange where it sits up against the Bearing can wear, but I've not seen one wear to this extent.

 

It would also be worth measuring the Disc from the Flange Seating Face to the back of the Disc

 

6Jk0m2G.jpg

 

Dimension B in that drawing. It should be 3.05" (77.5 mm)

 

 



#21 Tomm

Tomm

    Up Into Fourth

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,459 posts
  • Location: Rochester, Kent

Posted 03 April 2020 - 08:29 AM

I don’t remember the drive flange sitting that proud of the disc.

 

what is the the drive flange to disc surface like?

 

Thanks again for the reply. 

 

I have checked both faces and they appear useable and free of any unnecessary interference, I applied some small grease spots to check for contact and it appears to be going the whole way home. I even swapped flanges onto some old discs to see if they sat the same and they did. 

 

 

Moke spider, you certainly know your stuff. Do we think the wheel bearing could be assembled incorrectly?

 

Tomm, thanks for the kind words.

 

I can't see how the wheel bearing could be assembled incorrectly. Just on that, what brand / type of Wheel Bearing assy is it ?

 

There's clearly an error here and the more I'm seeing and think about this, the more I'm beginning to think it's one of the components rather than an assembly error.

 

Have you the Disc and Flange off the other side ? Does that spin OK ?

 

Maybe swap them out and if that works, mark them so you don't get them mixed up, then try it with the other flange and the fitting disc and then likewise with the disc.

 

The Drive Flange where it sits up against the Bearing can wear, but I've not seen one wear to this extent.

 

It would also be worth measuring the Disc from the Flange Seating Face to the back of the Disc

 

6Jk0m2G.jpg

 

Dimension B in that drawing. It should be 3.05" (77.5 mm)

 

 

Annoyingly, my digital caliper appears to have drained its last battery, so whilst those are on order I had to make do with a rule. 

 

I removed the outer seal and bearing and measured from the race to the outer edge of the flange and it is showing at just over 12mm, this seems to correspond with the 12.8mm you have in your thread, so that seems to be as it should. 

 

I will have a measure of the disc tonight and report back. I suspected it could be the new disc that was wrong, but having got some old discs and different drive flanges all of them seem to be sitting the same and fouling on the hub. I suppose this would rule out flange wear, especially if it is consistent across 3 or 4 drive flanges. 

 

The bearing assembly was bought a considerable time ago at Bingley Hall possibly 5 or 6 years ago, I do have another bearing and another hub. I am half tempted to assemble that one and see if that presents the same problem.  

 

It may be the photograph but the bearing/oil seal looks like it's recessed in the hub. Could the spacer be undersized?

Can you measure the bearing face (inner) to bearing face (outer) and does anyone out there have a hub handy to measure theirs?

 

Thanks for the suggestion, the areas I have been able to check correspond with the figures Mr Moke shows in his wheel bearing thread. 

 

Thanks again for all and any help. 



#22 nicklouse

nicklouse

    Moved Into The Garage

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,899 posts
  • Location: Not Yorkshire
  • Local Club: Anonyme Miniholiker

Posted 03 April 2020 - 09:06 AM

Ok so with old and new discs and drive flanges it is the same.

 

so the issue reverts to the hub it’s self or the bearings.



#23 Tomm

Tomm

    Up Into Fourth

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,459 posts
  • Location: Rochester, Kent

Posted 03 April 2020 - 09:31 AM

Ok so with old and new discs and drive flanges it is the same.

 

so the issue reverts to the hub it’s self or the bearings.

 

Correct, the only combination that works is with 8.4" discs and drive flanges. 

 

Are there any variants in the CV joint? I will try to take a photo tonight but the 7.5" drive flange drives down the CV joint far further than an 8.4" flange does. Also, I don't know if this bears any relevance but when I torque up just the drive flange with no disc, the 7.5" flange seems to feel a whole lot better than the 8.4". The 8.4" flange seems to offer extra resistance over the 7.5" drive flange. 

 

The whole purpose of this assembly procedure is to try and get my shell mobile again after many, many years sat idle. The bearings are not Timken which appear to be the favourite choice. I suppose detailed measurements of the hub, bearing and flange is the next call. 

 

Thanks again for all of the help guys. 



#24 nicklouse

nicklouse

    Moved Into The Garage

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,899 posts
  • Location: Not Yorkshire
  • Local Club: Anonyme Miniholiker

Posted 03 April 2020 - 09:48 AM

Disc CVs are all the same. It also would not effect the disc position. That is controlled by the hub and the bearings (outer set) And then the drive flange contact to the bearing and finally the disc/drive flange assy.



#25 dodge44

dodge44

    Stage One Kit Fitted

  • Noobies
  • PipPipPip
  • 53 posts
  • Location: Dorset

Posted 03 April 2020 - 10:18 AM

Notice you have new discs but they look like the original drive flanges. Margins are tight even when both are new so would suspect the face on the flange that bears onto the inner race of the bearings is worn which will as a result bring the disc into contact with the hub. Picture of a new flange compared with a knackered one (Hopefully) attached.  Roger

Mini drive flange 21A1270 new vs worn.jpg

 



#26 Tomm

Tomm

    Up Into Fourth

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,459 posts
  • Location: Rochester, Kent

Posted 04 April 2020 - 04:54 PM

Hello again Chaps. 

 

Here is another photo of contact on an older disc which previously worked. 

 

49734699898_63c7d10a3a_c.jpg

 

Here are some photos, one is of the 8.4" which fits and works, another is a 7.5" drive flange. One works, one doesn't. I cant seem to see any excessive wear of any kind. Please correct me if I am wrong. 

 

49734469483_c2960acf87_c.jpg

 

49734469273_1571043152_c.jpg

 

I have a second hub to build up, so that will be done over this weekend and we will see if the problem persists on that side of the hub. The whole reason for this exercise was to get my shell mobile. This can be achieved with 8.4" drive flanges to get it mobile. I will then source some other hubs and perhaps play around with them a little further to see if the problem persists or not. 






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users