24 replies to this topic

[paulg027]

I saw this 'Cooper S' race car barn find restoration for sale and it clearly has been restored to a good standard, but does not seem 100% legit in respect of a genuine Cooper S pedigree.  Of course I could be wrong and it may be a complete bargain! It would be good to get some comments from the more knowledgeable people on the forum.

 

https://www.carandcl...n=weekly digest

 

 

 

[nicklouse]

as it says, never was a Cooper S just a MK1

[Cooperman]

Don't confuse the requirement for correct history for a classic road car and the specifications needed for a pure competition car.

 

For a 'genuine' Cooper 'S' to have a high value and be considered as 'original' it should have the original V5 together with matching numbers of VIN and engine together with the correct age-related specification for all major components. 

 

A true competition car will have a log book issued by the MSA or equivalent body, have some competition history and meet the requirements for the category of motor-sport into which it will be entered.

 

For most true competitors a Mini will be considered as a 'Cooper S' so long as it has a Mk.1 or Mk.2 bodyshell, twin-bolt front sub-frame, a proper 'S' block with a remote gear shift, 'S' brakes with 10" wheels, etc. It may well have been built up from parts as most race cars were in the 1960's. After all, why take a complete Cooper 'S' and strip everything out when one could buy, say, a damaged Mk.1 850 which has an identical basic bodyshell and sub-frames, and from that buy the specialised race parts needed and build a car which will both pass scrutineering and be competitive. Virtually all the Mini race teams built their cars from scratch using parts from BMCSpecial Tuning or Comps Dep't. This also applied to rally cars and rallycross cars as well as pure race cars.

 

The car for sale here is most definitely a car which meets or met the race regulations of the day and it looks to be good value. Obviously one can't take such a car and put it on the road with a real 'S' V5 and it it was to be road registered it would likely get a 'Q' plate.

 

I hope this helps.

[Avtovaz]

^ yes... Like find a real group 4 escort or a real Brundza VFTS Lada...

[Cooperman]

My son has built a 1978 Escort RS2000 from a 1978 Escort 1300L. It is to full-on rally specification and has MSA papers as an RS2000.
On all rallies it is accepted as an RS2000. It has a high notional value as a competition car and no distinction as to originality is ever made.
Thus if you buy a full historic race spec Cooper S then that is what you have.

[Avtovaz]

oh?! any pics of that cooperman?

[Cooperman]

I'll try to post some later.

It is 2060 cc with an engine which I built. It gives 165 bhp running with a single twin-choke downdraft carb as required by the regs. 

He might go to Group 4 spec with twin 45 DCOE carbs and different cam with even lower final drive ratio.

It certainly feels quick to drive and much faster than my 1964 historic 1310 cc Cooper 'S' which has around 105-ish bhp at 6400 rpm, especially on gravel.

Are you going to buy that 'S' race car? It does look good and the spec appears right for historics.

[Midas Mk1]

Build thread for it is on here, love it.

[Avtovaz]

i bet that has some low down pull with the single carb on, i do think 8v motors give a greater spread of power, my volvo b230 at 150 at the fly pulled strong all the way threw which was much nicer down the lanes than the m44 i had with 30 bhp more!

 

Still like to see some pics please!

[cal844]

I'll try to post some later.
It is 2060 cc with an engine which I built. It gives 165 bhp running with a single twin-choke downdraft carb as required by the regs.
He might go to Group 4 spec with twin 45 DCOE carbs and different cam with even lower final drive ratio.
It certainly feels quick to drive and much faster than my 1964 historic 1310 cc Cooper 'S' which has around 105-ish bhp at 6400 rpm, especially on gravel.
Are you going to buy that 'S' race car? It does look good and the spec appears right for historics.

Sounds great Peter, I love the bark of twin Weber's and the smell of Castrol R engine oil ?

[Cooperman]

Not been able to do much today because I got a couple of little sparks in my left eye whilst angle grinding. Had to go to the local A & E and got to go to the eye clinic on Monday.
The new safety goggles I was wearing didn't do their job.
I will post the Escort pics when I get some from my son.

[Avtovaz]

that is not nice , i ve had that a few times, but i wear glasses all the time now, i wear prescription safety glasses. safetyspecs.co.uk, for an extra £15 they are resistant to thinners and everything!

 

So easily done.

[viz139]

That Mini looks to have a MK3 rear screen and scuttle panel but has the correct Mk2 door openings,It appears a lot of welding has gone on there.

[Avtovaz]

1968 mini would be a mk2, so that would be correct.

[mab01uk]

That Mini looks to have a MK3 rear screen and scuttle panel but has the correct Mk2 door openings,It appears a lot of welding has gone on there.

 

Mk2 rear screen is same size as Mk3, only Mk1 had the smaller rear screen.....

Edited by mab01uk, 16 May 2020 - 08:31 AM.