7 replies to this topic

[Neil1275]

Hi all,

 

My mini is nearly ready for paint, new front floors, inner outer sills, step sills, scuttle panel, front wings, A panels, rear valance.

 

Colour is Solar red with Old english white roof.

 

Have had a few quotes from local bodyshops and friends who are in the trade, do i have it painted in colour and clear coat or just solid colour(2pac)

 

What are the pros and cons of each? have been told 2pac gives a nicer shine and finish.

 

Any advice would be great. 

 

 

 

 

[sovenmini]

Hi there is not really any big advantage to either really as long as it’s done right, the product used is probably the bigger difference in your case.

2k paint is great, it’s solid and slightly but not much easier process paint and a bit more forgiving in covering up flatting marks or pin holes in primer before paint, but as long as it’s done properly that shouldn’t be a issue, plus on average you only need 2-3 coats of good 2k paint (this mean less chance of dirt or dust in the painting process). As long as it’s not cheap paint it should flat and polish up nice and shiny but the more time spent doing this makes a difference.

Solvent or water with lacquer on the top will give you just a good finish as 2k, the process to get it right is a little more time consuming but again not loads it just pays to rub in down with a finer grade as solvent / water is a thinner coat so can show imperfection up more in not prepped properly, this process normally consists of 3 coats of base colour (solvent or water) then 2 or 3 coats of lacquer so chances of getting a piece of dirt in the paint will increasing, as long as it’s flatted and polishing properly will look great just like 2k.

The only thing that might be worth considering is that red is bad for fading because of uv light and good some good quality lacquer now contains uv protection so might help it from fading a little more but all paint fades with time. Your main thing here I would say is don’t worry to much if it’s 2k or lacquered ect but more the job is done right and the paint is good quality and not cheap, is amazing what a difference a product can make just spending another £20 or £50 on stuff.

Hope this helps a little

[bluedragon]

Since it seems like you're having this done by a professional, IMHO 2K paint is the only way to go. It is more durable by far than lacquer. It is much less likely to chip and fade.

 

If you are choosing a metallic paint color, go for clear coat/base coat. It is more durable and the clear protects the metallic finish better. For a solid color, it doesn't matter as much - some think that the clear gives a greater shine, others think the single color/no clear has a less toylike look on the small Mini and is easier to repair and touch up in case of damage. 

 

I agree that red paint is still more prone to fading - in this case, a clear coat can help with that. The 2K paints are much superior in this respect.

 

For the home/amateur painter, lacquer can give a better shine and appearance because it's much easier for the home painter to flat it and polish it than 2K. But if you have a professional do the job, this doesn't matter.

 

 

Dave

[sovenmini]

As your see everyone has a different opinion on the matter but I personally I repeat personal would not agree that 2k paint is stronger or more durable that lacquer, special then it comes to modern lacquers with there anti scratch mix’s, witch is found on some high end BMW’s, Mercedes, Rolls-Royce, Bentley and Range Rover ect ect ect, this is not to be confused with all or general lacquer but good quality lacquer, this the same rule as most things in life that is you want quality it costs more.

Also maybe just consider that when people refer to 2k paints vs lacquer that lacquer is in fact a 2k, it’s basically a clear 2k paint witch is clear and no colour pigment added to it, if you added pigment then you would then make it a 2k paint. there chemical mix of 2k paint and 2k lacquers are not that far apart obviously pigment being a big difference and resin used in the mix.

But agree that if your getting it painted professionally then that ever it’s painted in will look great, and the bottom line is a good 2k paint or lacquer will look great what ever you choose and if it’s the colour you wanted and the finish is good your have what you wanted a shiny new paint job despite what is painted in its mission completed.

(I should add that I’m only referring to solid colours and not metallic direct gloss is not good, metallic paints should in my eyes always be finished in lacquer)

Edited by sovenmini, 28 May 2020 - 08:53 PM.

[bartman]

there are some serious misinformed people on this forum.

 

nearly all primers, solids and laquers used in a professional bodyshop are 2k.

 

your options to have your car painted are:

 

a 2k soild which is basically the colour mixed with a activator and applied.

 

or clear over base, which is a solvent or water base coat which will be the colour and a 2k laquer over the top to seal it.

 

both methods will require some flatting back and polishing. 

 

a solid colour would be easier to repair if you have stone chips, but a clear over base will give the paint a deeper shine in my opinion.

Edited by bartman, 28 May 2020 - 08:58 PM.

[bluedragon]

In the automotive refinish world "lacquer" is commonly called "cellulose" in the UK. This is a paint that dries by solvent evaporation only. You can actually remove the paints by just exposing them to the solvent again (for example, soaking a cloth in the solvent type and then wiping the paint. It will take some off.) The term "celluose" is rather outdated since most modern automotive lacquers are no longer based on plant-based celluose products but synthetic compounds (for the last 40 years anyway.) These are generally being outlawed by many countries due to the high amount of vapors this type of paint puts into the air (a lot of solvent for a little bit of paint, all atomized.)

 

"Enamels" dry by both solvent evaporation, and mainly by chemical hardening where the molecules of the paint chemically link to one another. This is why these are more durable. Enamels are the basis of all modern automotive paints, no matter the carrier solvent (be it waterborne or hydrocarbon based.)

 

Air dried enamels can take a very long time to chemically harden - it can be measured in years in some cases.

 

So for automotive purposes, it is valuable to speed that hardening process. Factories usually bake their paints in ovens, using the heat to accelerate the hardening process. These ovens are not the type you normally see in paint shops - these are real ovens, where the cars at that stage have no plastic or other parts that will melt under high temperatures.

 

This isn't practical for the aftermarket, so there, chemical additives are used to accelerate the molecular bonding process. The so called "2K" paints are in this category.

 

It goes on and on - there are different enamel chemistries, such as basic synthetic enamel, urethanes, polyurethanes, epoxies, and more. They have different characteristics and different prices. You choose what you want to pay for and what you need (durability? Ease of application? Wide range of colors? Resistance to chemicals?)

 

 

 

Dave

Edited by bluedragon, 29 May 2020 - 01:30 AM.

[steeley]

Both are two 2k (2 pak) as you mix two products together ( paint and hardener )

In my opinion clear coat lacquer gives a new car hard very shiny look

Whereas solid colour gives more of a restoration look, it’s a bit less shiny and looks softer if you know what I mean

A lot of guys who do restoration work will use solid colour

I used standox standofleet on mine

If you get damage or chips it’s very easy to blow in damage and sand and buff

For me it means it’s a bit easier when putting the car back together as if you get scuffs you can polish out very easily

You will get lots of guys with different opinions

If you are sure ask the guys who are spraying it what they would recommend

Edited by steeley, 31 May 2020 - 08:42 AM.

[Homersimpson]

There is one other option that hasn't been mentioned, paint it in 2k solid an then 2k Lacquer it, only do this on red cars though as i've done a couple and the shine is amazing, I did another in dark blue and one in dark green and the results were not great and it would have been better not to lacquer them.