38 replies to this topic

[I hate Brian]

Always nice to get some discount 

[mini-mad-mark]

Indeed, I spoke with someone at Mini Spares. He said that they are completely out of Timken bearings, because Timken is not making them (presumably due to covid shutdowns—the US is still a mess). He said if I could find them in stock anywhere...buy them quick.

 

So. I have Mini Spares boxes with Mini Spares "genuine Timken" part numbers and non-genuine-Timken bearings in them that I bought through Mini Mania and I can't put my car together without bearings. This oughta be fun.

 

It's not clear who to blame here, so I won't, but...buyer beware: scrutinize your bearings.

The "genuine Timken part numbers" are actually American Bearing Manufacturers Association part numbers (for the fronts) so they follow an agreed system of part numbering which designates the bearing design in general terms and can be used by anyone manufacturing bearings in accordance with ABMA part numbers (so anyone basically!)

 

If you look at the Timken website here:

https://cad.timken.c...Engineering.pdf

 

You can translate that - LM67049A means 

LM - Light Medium duty 

6 - outer race included angularity of between 30-30-00.00 and 32-29-59.99 (deg-min-sec)

70 - bore size 1-2 inch

49 indicates the bearing component so 49 for inner race (last two digits different on the outer - 14 from memory) 

The "A" suffix means it has some variation from a standard LM67049 part

 

If you read down you can see what the suffixes (and prefixes) mean for Timken (NB see the note - they can mean different things for different manufacturers) there you can see the NP prefix designation for "product differentiation" where the bearing was different design ( extended inner races instead of a separate spacer as originally designed) I assume this part number was also perpetuated by other manufacturers who "developed" similar bearings.....  or again falling under the ABMA designation?

 

Basically the part numbers are not solely Timken so anyone can make a bearing and call it LM67049A; it could be different to a Timken LM67049A within the parameters above however typically they will be the same envelope sizes to fit the same "hole" but the geometry of the internal rolling contact surfaces could be different.  

 

The GHK references I assume are Rover (or whatever they were at the time) references and would probably have been Timken (but could have been any brand deemed acceptable by Rover)

Mini Spares usually suffix non genuine parts MS so GHK1140 would be Timken (or again any brand defined as a Rover OEM brand if there were any other than Timken) and GHK1140MS would be whatever Mini Spares chosen non genuine brand is.  FHBC KOR(EA) it seems 

 

Just for information there are probably only a handful of "premium" quality brands of bearings (alphabetical order not order of any perceived quality or preference) FAG, Koyo, NSK, NTN, SKF, Timken  - not sure how many, if any, other than Timken make the complete adjusted bearing set for a Mini though. 

 

After those you are taking a chance with what you get; BUT, some are probably not as bad as might be suggested and as long as the adjustment of the bearing/spacer during manufacture is done correctly then they can work fine - a lot of bearing issues are down to incorrect fitting, or poor used condition/poor new quality of the mating parts (hub, CV joint, drive flange)

 

You do need to watch out for counterfeit versions of premium brands as they usually are crap, because the counterfeiters don't know how to make bearings nor do they care, they just remark crap with a known brand name and don't do any proper adjustment of the bearing/spacer, whereas the cheaper brands do know how to make/adjust bearings they just aren't quite as good (like any cheaper version of anything)

 

Note the MiniSpares KOR(EA) bearings and think about Korean cars - when they first came to the UK they were pretty ropey - now they are still second division probably to some people versus premium (Audi, BMW, Peugeot etc) but now they are pretty decent cars and probably better than a badly made Merc......

(And yes the bearings may be made in China but so are a good many other "premium" consumables - iPhone anyone....? )

 

There are many variables causing bearing issues and not all down to the bearings - even a premium brand can fail due to a worn hub or bad fitting

 

(Note the Peugeot/premium reference was just a trick to see if you were still reading/concentrating   )

[Spider]

 

Indeed, I spoke with someone at Mini Spares. He said that they are completely out of Timken bearings, because Timken is not making them (presumably due to covid shutdowns—the US is still a mess). He said if I could find them in stock anywhere...buy them quick.

 

So. I have Mini Spares boxes with Mini Spares "genuine Timken" part numbers and non-genuine-Timken bearings in them that I bought through Mini Mania and I can't put my car together without bearings. This oughta be fun.

 

It's not clear who to blame here, so I won't, but...buyer beware: scrutinize your bearings.

The "genuine Timken part numbers" are actually American Bearing Manufacturers Association part numbers (for the fronts) so they follow an agreed system of part numbering which designates the bearing design in general terms and can be used by anyone manufacturing bearings in accordance with ABMA part numbers (so anyone basically!)

 

If you look at the Timken website here:

https://cad.timken.c...Engineering.pdf

 

You can translate that - LM67049A means 

LM - Light Medium duty 

6 - outer race included angularity of between 30-30-00.00 and 32-29-59.99 (deg-min-sec)

70 - bore size 1-2 inch

49 indicates the bearing component so 49 for inner race (last two digits different on the outer - 14 from memory) 

The "A" suffix means it has some variation from a standard LM67049 part

 

If you read down you can see what the suffixes (and prefixes) mean for Timken (NB see the note - they can mean different things for different manufacturers) there you can see the NP prefix designation for "product differentiation" where the bearing was different design ( extended inner races instead of a separate spacer as originally designed) I assume this part number was also perpetuated by other manufacturers who "developed" similar bearings.....  or again falling under the ABMA designation?

 

Basically the part numbers are not solely Timken so anyone can make a bearing and call it LM67049A; it could be different to a Timken LM67049A within the parameters above however typically they will be the same envelope sizes to fit the same "hole" but the geometry of the internal rolling contact surfaces could be different.  

 

The GHK references I assume are Rover (or whatever they were at the time) references and would probably have been Timken (but could have been any brand deemed acceptable by Rover)

Mini Spares usually suffix non genuine parts MS so GHK1140 would be Timken (or again any brand defined as a Rover OEM brand if there were any other than Timken) and GHK1140MS would be whatever Mini Spares chosen non genuine brand is.  FHBC KOR(EA) it seems 

 

Just for information there are probably only a handful of "premium" quality brands of bearings (alphabetical order not order of any perceived quality or preference) FAG, Koyo, NSK, NTN, SKF, Timken  - not sure how many, if any, other than Timken make the complete adjusted bearing set for a Mini though. 

 

After those you are taking a chance with what you get; BUT, some are probably not as bad as might be suggested and as long as the adjustment of the bearing/spacer during manufacture is done correctly then they can work fine - a lot of bearing issues are down to incorrect fitting, or poor used condition/poor new quality of the mating parts (hub, CV joint, drive flange)

 

You do need to watch out for counterfeit versions of premium brands as they usually are crap, because the counterfeiters don't know how to make bearings nor do they care, they just remark crap with a known brand name and don't do any proper adjustment of the bearing/spacer, whereas the cheaper brands do know how to make/adjust bearings they just aren't quite as good (like any cheaper version of anything)

 

Note the MiniSpares KOR(EA) bearings and think about Korean cars - when they first came to the UK they were pretty ropey - now they are still second division probably to some people versus premium (Audi, BMW, Peugeot etc) but now they are pretty decent cars and probably better than a badly made Merc......

(And yes the bearings may be made in China but so are a good many other "premium" consumables - iPhone anyone....? )

 

There are many variables causing bearing issues and not all down to the bearings - even a premium brand can fail due to a worn hub or bad fitting

 

(Note the Peugeot/premium reference was just a trick to see if you were still reading/concentrating   )

 

 

Thanks for your post here, it has a lot of handy, informative information, however, not to undermine what you've said here, I have been digging around to find out just where these KOR Branded Bearings come from. My Bearing distributor, after asking around said they were made in China (and as you've pointed out, they may well be), I found their Head Office to be in India;-

 

http://pswbearings.com/index.html

 

At first, this just appeared to be the distributors of them, however, reading the pages that are there; they are the Manufacturers, granted, they maybe made in India, or China or goodness knows.

 

Interestingly, all the tabs on their website work, except the one labelled 'Quality'.

 

Just in particular regards to 'Made in China' not all parts from there are substandard. I've found if they are a Name Brand (ie FAG, SKF etc and really are, not fakes) then they are every bit as good as those from any other of their factories around the world and will be of good quality. I've found it's the off-beat branded stuff or the unbranded that is of poor quality.

 

KBC are the Korean Bearing manufacturer, though, there maybe others.

[wilsonch]

Wow. I only asked if anyone had used an independent bearing supplier rather than minispares.

Reading all of the above very informative information (thank you all) it appears that its a bit of pot luck buying bearings, even from your preffered mini parts supplier.

When my bearings arrive i will post pics so people can see what has arrived.
These were avdertised as Timken... We shall see.

[wilsonch]

Quick update. This lot arrived this morning.
Well boxed, snail mail second class but still only a few days (ordered Thursday, arrived this morning.
Genuine Tinken as far as i can tell, the 'France' on the housing is a bit confusing but they have the matched set numbers so i am quite happy.
I will be ditching the grease though, i have some propper Timken bearing grease.

https://www.flickr.c...2/shares/04M16p

[Spider]

Just about all the Front Timken's I've bought in the last 10 years have had the Cup made in France and the Cone in the USA. I can't recall why I drew to this now, but I feel the matching is done in France too.

[Tremelune]

If anyone is still looking, I bought these on Tuesday and they got to me in California today. Gen-u-ine Timkens with all the fixins. I'm blown away...Wish I'd known a week ago:

 

http://guess-works.c...bottletopracing

Edited by Tremelune, 06 August 2020 - 05:32 PM.

[nicklouse]

If anyone is still looking, I bought these on Tuesday and they got to me in California today. Gen-u-ine Timkens with all the fixins. I'm blown away...Wish I'd known a week ago:

 

http://guess-works.c...bottletopracing

Second post of this thread?

[Tremelune]

I'll be damned. It's like that link was hidden.