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Different Rates Rubber Cones


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#1 IronmanG

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Posted 27 July 2020 - 07:39 AM

This is just a musing.
Has anyone tried different rate rubber cones on the rear to the front. So a slightly softer cone on the back to account for the weight difference front to rear. Mines a pick up so the back is quite light and I wont be loading it up that much unless I am sitting in the back at a show eating my lunch
Chuck some ideas out there

#2 Moke Spider

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Posted 27 July 2020 - 08:04 AM

We more or less have a similar issue with the Mokes.

 

A couple of things we do is;-

 

1 - fit a Jack Up Ring. This fits to the Base of the Rubber Cone between it and the Subframe. These don't increase the rate, but will raise the rear end (to compensate for loads) without the risk of busting trailing arm pins.

 

sXZKAyb.jpg

 

 

2 - fit some lightly sprung Coil Overs. These work in tandem with the Rubber Cones and will increase the rate. They are quite effective.

 

gcUrK5h.jpg



#3 IronmanG

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Posted 27 July 2020 - 08:42 AM

Coilovers would mean some body work changes.
I dont plan on going higher than standard on the back. I think it's more looking to soften the back up a little compared to the front.

#4 nicklouse

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Posted 27 July 2020 - 08:51 AM

As the leverage ratio of the suspension is different the rear is already softer. And the pickup originally had longer trumpets to allow fir more suspension displacement allowing greater load ability. These longer trumpets became the norm with the later saloons IIRC.

 

Just fitting new M-Part rubbers will make the rear softer when compared to any old rubber.

 

now I have to ask why do you want softer rubber on the rear? What are you trying to do?



#5 Moke Spider

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Posted 27 July 2020 - 09:00 AM

Coilovers would mean some body work changes.
I dont plan on going higher than standard on the back. I think it's more looking to soften the back up a little compared to the front.

 

These coilovers fit without body mods.



#6 mab01uk

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Posted 27 July 2020 - 09:11 AM

You can make a cone a little more compliant by drilling small holes in the rubber, these was often done for lightweight race Minis at the rear and some Mini based kit cars. These days there are several different cone types available from Minispares, etc.

 

The type of rubber used in the later 1980's cone springs tends to soften resulting in a flat "cone" and low ride height. The change in the rubber was to make the ride less harsh for later car buyers compared to other modern more refined small cars. As said downside was they seemed to sag in height especially on the front in a short time. The older pre-1980's cones tend to harden with age but most seem to last for ever without going flat or collapsing. A recent thread on the Mk1 Forum below concluded with some saying we would keep our old hard long lasting 1960/70's rubber cones from now on on and not chuck them.....

 

If you're looking for a softer ride maybe look at the Smootha Ride system that Alex Moulton with Minisport developed a few years ago. It is more compliant with small suspension movement but in theory stiffens up when driven harder.

 

New rubber cones collapsing after 8 months? (Mk1 Technical section of forum you may need to register for access)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29226

 

This Minispares article linked below is also worth a read.
Mini Dunlop Suspension, Cones and Hydrolastic Unit:-
http://www.minispare...nlop-Suspension


Edited by mab01uk, 27 July 2020 - 09:21 AM.


#7 nicklouse

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Posted 27 July 2020 - 09:41 AM

Mmm drilling holes in the rubber. Fun and very inaccurate when wanting consistent results. A better way was to freeze them and then alter the shape of the rubber. Overall and in particular the contact area with the trumpet.

 

oh just a thought you have some form of adjustable suspension on the pick up. That will be making the ride harder as well due to the changed contact surface between it and the rubber. 



#8 mab01uk

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Posted 27 July 2020 - 11:50 AM

Drilling holes as said was often done in the past......we did not always have the range of choices available today for accurate and consistent results.....or the money to buy when we did, trial and error was often needed instead !

 

Mk2 Hi-Lo introduced the larger contact area of the rubber cone support lip by 1/2", also the Minivan & Pickup had rear metal trumpets with a similar larger area to help carry loads.

Original Mk2 Hi-Lo ad:-

http://www.theminifo...hive/?p=2617559

 



#9 IronmanG

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Posted 27 July 2020 - 12:03 PM

Ok so the contact patch is the same.
And the different length levers negate the need for different spring rates.
As far as cones go mini spares are out of everything so I have ordered 2 from mini sport instead
https://www.minispor...nsion-cone.html
These ok?

#10 Moke Spider

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Posted 27 July 2020 - 07:16 PM

Another way to make it softer is to swap out the rear Trumpets for early Saloon types. These are slightly shorter than the Pick-up types and they have a smaller flange giving a softer rate.

 

Drilling Holes in the rubber cones as suggested by mab01uk works well as long as you drill the same number of holes using the same size bit. The holes won't look neat, just because of the material that it is, however, I found a woodwork auger to make a neater hole that an normal drill bit.



#11 Ethel

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Posted 27 July 2020 - 08:24 PM

Don't think I've made a daft suggestion for a while - How about adding some sort of spring in series with the cone to lower the total rate? It shouldn't be that hard to implement  with the kind of rod/tube arrangement on a rear Hi-Lo



#12 unburntfuelinthemorning

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Posted 02 August 2020 - 03:03 PM

Thirty years ago I had hard old cones on my pickup.  It was great on a dry smooth surface but when hitting bumps the front would skate across the road and it was even worse in the wet.  David Vizard said about drilling holes in the rubber so as I was running on an extreme budget I thought I'd try it.  The effect was to soften the front end just enough that it gripped the road beautifully.  I drilled some holes in the rear cones too as the ride was very hard.  With a bit of experimentation I ended up with a wonderfully neutral handling setup which is still the best handling vehicle I ever owned - just so controllable.  The only other suspension mods were Hi-los on the front only, set just high enough to keep off the slightly cut down bump stops, and Kayaba dampers also on the front only which also made a massive difference with much better rebound control.

 

Saying that, on the van I now own I haven't drilled holes in the cones but rather replaced them.  Hopefully they won't collapse too soon.  The ride is good with KYB dampers all round although the handling is far from neutral having quite a lot of understeer but I'll work on that over time.



#13 IronmanG

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Posted 02 August 2020 - 04:35 PM

Thirty years ago I had hard old cones on my pickup.  It was great on a dry smooth surface but when hitting bumps the front would skate across the road and it was even worse in the wet.  David Vizard said about drilling holes in the rubber so as I was running on an extreme budget I thought I'd try it.  The effect was to soften the front end just enough that it gripped the road beautifully.  I drilled some holes in the rear cones too as the ride was very hard.  With a bit of experimentation I ended up with a wonderfully neutral handling setup which is still the best handling vehicle I ever owned - just so controllable.  The only other suspension mods were Hi-los on the front only, set just high enough to keep off the slightly cut down bump stops, and Kayaba dampers also on the front only which also made a massive difference with much better rebound control.
 
Saying that, on the van I now own I haven't drilled holes in the cones but rather replaced them.  Hopefully they won't collapse too soon.  The ride is good with KYB dampers all round although the handling is far from neutral having quite a lot of understeer but I'll work on that over time.


Sounds interesting. Not sure I would drill as has been mentioned the consistency would be tricky
Which cones are you running now

#14 unburntfuelinthemorning

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Posted 02 August 2020 - 04:45 PM


Sounds interesting. Not sure I would drill as has been mentioned the consistency would be tricky
Which cones are you running now

 

Standard cones from Minispares. 

 

Drilling is very crude but it worked surprisingly well. 



#15 IronmanG

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Posted 02 August 2020 - 06:14 PM

How will you get rid off the understeer?




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