34 replies to this topic

[John/Dominguez]

So first of all I hope I posted this in the right place if not please relocated where it should

Well I guess this has been covered a million times over but I have to ask...

So far I’ve got a stock 998 engine with a hs2 single carb and I wanted a little more power from the little clubman, so my initial thoughts where obviously to go for an mg metro engine or at least 1275 that atm here in sunny Spain are going for around 1200€ a basic 1275 and 1600€ ish for an mg metro... so after reading quiet a lot in here I’ve found a few of you even ditching your 1275 over the 998 saying is more fun and more pleasant to drive on the road... (bare in mind my mini is used as a Daly driver to cover 5 miles from home to work and back)

So I’m wondering to do a fresh rebuild on my 998 with a 12g295 head stage one kit hif 38 and a long etc.. or to get a 1275 engine and leave it as it is as I won’t be able to afford to pay for the engine plus a rebuild.

So what are you thoughts?

Edited by John/Dominguez, 02 November 2020 - 05:23 PM.

[luismx123]

hey john,

I was in your position about a year ago.
i went down the 998+12g295 route. was a 998+20thou, med lightened flywheel, 3.44 x-pin diff, 12g295 skimmed for 10.4 CR, howley inlet manifold, now hif44 (was a vizarded hs4 before), AC dodd rs cam (similar to kent 256-266) etc etc.

Now, to be fair, its quite a good engine and i love reving to 6000-6250 and making noise, and when i am driving alone, I think it is quite a good setup. 

HOWEVER, if i am following other minis, and most here are 1275s+, I struggle to follow as they drive in their "appropriate" rev range which is where my 998 has little power. In a straight line race, i am faster than a 1275 stage 1 which is really cool, but after doing lots of hill/mountain passes I feel a difference in low down torque.

Now having said this, and really enjoying my engine how it is, I am currently building a 1293 with kent 286 "semi race engine" as I would like to do some trackdays and more spirited driving. My mini is also my daily and it is something im willing to put up with.

Something to consider, a tuned 998 is fun and can rev forever, and its really fun passing a 1275 and then seeing their face afterwards knowing you have a 1000cc engine, BUT, a 1275 is cheaper and easier power, AND you have the possibility of getting much more down the road IF you want to do so...
A 1275 is also a nicer drive in daily situations as you have more torque low down and you dont need to rev your 1275 as high as a 998 to get the same "movement" out of it...

Its not an easy decision... take some time, think what you want, and stick to your decision. Everyone here will have their own opinion. Good luck!

[floormanager]

There's no replacement for displacement

[Spider]

As luismx123 touched on above, it's easy to spend as much or more on performance modding a 998 to get as much or more peak power as a 1275. Also, the Power Curve will be quite different with the 1275 usually being an easy engine to drive with as in standard or mild form, it has a wide power delivery over it's rev range where as the small engines will tend to be 'peaky' in their power delivery, having a smaller power band, which may also mean to get the best from it, you'll be wanting a closer ratio gearbox and a shorter final drive.

 

I had a friend a few years back who wanted me to build him a fire breather, tyre burning engine. As at that time, I had a few Minis with engines in various states of tune, including one like he was thinking he wanted. After spending a few hours driving each of them, he quickly realised the fire breather wasn't what he thought it would be in over all terms and settled on one in a mild state of tune.

 

Each can be fun in their own way, you just need to decide what you'd like. In considering that, if it's a road car, think long term ownership. See if you can find local some owners (try the car clubs) who have a 1275 engined Mini you can drive and also various modded smaller engines. Discussing it on these pages doesn't easily translate to real life.

[Dusky]

My 2 cents on this :
People saying a 998 is more run or better are most of the time people who dont have a 1275 to compare it with.
I've had a few engines and configurations, dont go too wild on the camshaft for starters. I've had a 998 with a 643 cam ( 288°) and the 295 head. Boy, was it fun to rev to 6.5K rpm... for 5 minutes, then it became boring. If I compare that to my 1330 with evolution 001 cam, its night and day difference. More torque makes for a much more relaxed drive.
Sure, hot cammed engines are good for pub points, but they always remind me of that top gear episode where Jeremy drives that lamborghini countach.

[G'Racy]

998 or 1275 aren’t the only options, have you considered sourcing a 1098 crank, extra capacity = extra torque.
295 head, stage 1 kit, cam change could be a great engine

[andyapanel]

I have a 998 and a 1275

Use the 998 for local trips and the 1275 for longer ones as its fuel consumption is worse. The 1275 (RSP) is more comfortable.

I had a 1098 with a 295 head and 266 cam which had loads of torque, but was very thirsty, too. Maybe that was because it was a newly rebuilt engine.

If I only had one, for versatility, I would choose the 998.

Bear in mind the 998 comes in high and low compression flavours. I would not touch a low compression 998-I get frightened as they are slow to accelerate. I apologise to any low compression 998 fans !

[ACDodd]

Modified 998 gives 60lbft it torque, the other (1275) 90lbft the cost to achieve either is the same.

Ac

Edited by ACDodd, 03 November 2020 - 06:21 PM.

[dyshipfakta]

998 turbo?? Standard flat top pistons 12g295 head metro turbo bits 90hp and 90ftlb with whooshy boost noises that’s my plan if I ever get there like need to find a decent second hand 998 to play with

[Mini Manannán]

If it's a daily driver I'd recommend a 1275 with a 266 cam and enjoy the torque. Grunt is where it's at.

[Icey]

There's no replacement for displacement

.....boost.

[Bobbins]

With a 998 you can learn to drive quickly, properly ....

[Dusky]

With a 998 you can learn to drive quickly, properly ....

And quicker with a 1275.. ;)

Edited by Dusky, 04 November 2020 - 03:13 PM.

[John/Dominguez]

Hey guys!! Sorry has been so long but I did catch the COVID so I’ve been a bit off line but I’m back!

So first of all thank you very much for all your answers! I can’t really make up my mind with this decision but I’ve got some updates..

Last week I have been offered a hs2 twin carbs for 50€ with its original air box filter and inlet manifold in a pretty good condition so I already have a set of carbs..

I also have been offered a complete 998 cooper engine for 400€ apparently the engine turns freely and it comes even with the remote shift assembly.

Definitely going down the route of 998 engine as 1275 are way out of budget and to be honest I’m quiet happy with the performance of my 998 but as I mentioned before just need a little more power!

What do you guys think about this 998 cooper engine? Cheers

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Edited by John/Dominguez, 20 November 2020 - 12:33 AM.

[Minigman]

There’s no reason why a non cooper engine would be any less powerful than a cooper version. It was the 295 head, twin carbs, exhaust and cam that gave the cooper the extra power. The key to unlocking power from the 998 is the cylinder head, inlet and exhaust and upping your carb to a HS4 or HIF38. If your original engine is still good than I’d spend the money on a good ‘stage 3’ head, and a ‘stage 1’ kit. The cam could be changed but is a little more invasive. I had a 266 in a 998 and it was very good. The other thing to consider is the final drive. A 998 need to rev to get any good power out of it, so it needs a 3.44 or lower ratio (3.76) to liven them up. The 1275 on the other hand will pull a higher final drive 3.1 or even 2.95 and still accelerate ok.

My perfect 998 build would be as per my old one; 998 with overbore as required, twin HS2 with K&N filters in a metal original housing (to reduce induction noise), 266 cam, ‘stage3’ 295 head and lightened and balanced internals and a 3.76 final drive. It will go very nicely but will rev quite high on the faster roads and be noisy.

Edited by Minigman, 20 November 2020 - 09:54 AM.