Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Newbie....my 16v project


  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#16 16vminiman

16vminiman

    Stage One Kit Fitted

  • Noobies
  • PipPipPip
  • 71 posts

Posted 28 September 2004 - 08:43 PM

Cheers Dan, i think i'm settling on the vauxhall XE anyway, should be able to pick one up for about £400, rebuild it myself, N/A your looking at 200ish BHP easily, turbo'd/supercharged probably about 300ish BHP.

then comes the alloy block that'll take it to 2.4l capacity and save about 20kg, 8 injectors, water injection, dry sump kit, launch control, traction control, taper throttle bodies, 20psi of boost....mmmmm

the quaife sequential box may have to wait a while though...


it's not realy long range touring i have in mind, just something that i can travel in for an hour or two without doing my head in.. it was bad enough how the car was previously with a decatted b/bore s/steel system!

#17 Alburglar

Alburglar

    Das Pingu's

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,331 posts
  • Location: Dover Kent
  • Local Club: Kentish Mini Club

Posted 28 September 2004 - 09:18 PM

Bike engines are highly tuned but not weak. They are strong as old donkeys and an R1 or a busa especially just do not fail. They run forever.

But I think you are right to go for the xe. It is right for your requirements.
Plus it's always good to do something different.

#18 Dan

Dan

    On Sabbatical

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,354 posts

Posted 28 September 2004 - 09:46 PM

Really? You think that an R1 mill could cope with a big fat saloon car? Well that does impress me, but I am sure they will break eventually. They can't be indestructible! I mean, why don't they make car engines the same way if they're so good?

#19 F1 Mini

F1 Mini

    1 Gold star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 583 posts

Posted 28 September 2004 - 10:37 PM

Have a Spare 2003 Busa if your interested ???

#20 Alburglar

Alburglar

    Das Pingu's

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,331 posts
  • Location: Dover Kent
  • Local Club: Kentish Mini Club

Posted 28 September 2004 - 11:18 PM

Really? You think that an R1 mill could cope with a big fat saloon car? Well that does impress me, but I am sure they will break eventually. They can't be indestructible! I mean, why don't they make car engines the same way if they're so good?

Don't be sarcy Dan. There is no need.

A mini isn't a big fat saloon car and they are good engines that are reliable engines with no evidence to suggest otherwise. No-one said indestructable.

..and they do make car engines the same way. In general principle a car engine is built the same just with larger capacities and de-tuned for for 'comfort'.

Plus a 998 a-series doesn't cope well with a large saloon car either.

Sorry to Hi-Jack your thread 16v. I will say no more on the matter.

#21 Dan

Dan

    On Sabbatical

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,354 posts

Posted 29 September 2004 - 10:02 AM

Hey, no sarcasm intended! I said I wasn't certain, I have no reason to doubt you. The only experience I have of bike engines is in taking them apart and playing with the bits. Having played with cranks and rods from 'busa's I just don't think they are as strong as most car engine parts, that's all. There isn't very much steel in them, especially where the webs become the journals. And the basic principles of internal combustion are about all they share in common with most cars. The only technology I can think of which has moved from bike engine design into cars is the main bearing ladder.

#22 Alburglar

Alburglar

    Das Pingu's

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,331 posts
  • Location: Dover Kent
  • Local Club: Kentish Mini Club

Posted 29 September 2004 - 10:11 AM

Fair enough.

#23 philster

philster

    One Carb Or Two?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,255 posts

Posted 30 September 2004 - 03:19 PM

i'd go for a 1600 honda vtec, very reliable and if you get the motor from a civic vti they give out 158bhp in standard trim. There's also good aftermarket parts available and plenty of technical data around on the net. As for turbo's i really wouldn't bother ,if you can get 158 horse out of a standard motor then 200 should be easily possible without a turbo, also remember you've got to get the power to the ground and i think even with 160 horse in a front wheel drive mini you'll be struggling.

#24 16vminiman

16vminiman

    Stage One Kit Fitted

  • Noobies
  • PipPipPip
  • 71 posts

Posted 30 September 2004 - 05:49 PM

I'm not quite at the engine buying state at the mo... however the R1 route is one i've looked into too, there's currently 2 for sale on ebay, going for around 6-800 quid each, there's plenty of time time to decide anyway, like i said before this a long term project!!
i may research the twin R1 engined concepta bit further though, especially if i can turbo both the engines.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I watched the Ultimate mini dvd last nite again Alburglar, there was alot of difference in the noise of the turbo'd hayabusa versus the R1 engined mini, so a turbo'd bike engine is on the shortlist, but i was most amazed at how well the 'busa engined car handled the power, it wasn't out of control at all!! in fact it seemed easy(ish) to drive!!

Different(ish) subject...
does anyone know the standard kerb weight of a mini (late model)?


Most of the kit cars which have bike engines seem to be between 500 and 800 kgs, so i may aim for a wight of my car of about 800kgs, thats not feather light, but with a full interior, i think thats should be feasable??!!
tell me if i'm way off the mark, i probably am!!

#25 16vminiman

16vminiman

    Stage One Kit Fitted

  • Noobies
  • PipPipPip
  • 71 posts

Posted 30 September 2004 - 06:15 PM

also remember you've got to get the power to the ground and i think even with 160 horse in a front wheel drive mini you'll be struggling.

...hence the reason why i'm going for mid-engined layout philster, that was my main concern, when going for lots of power at the front wheels, getting it onto the tarmac is the problem!!, also the torque steeer issues concerned me a bit aswell!

and one other good thing about rear wheel drive... fit a line-loc, burnout heaven!!

#26 tom

tom

    Super Mini Mad

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 651 posts

Posted 30 September 2004 - 07:52 PM

I'd go for a front mounted Honda VTec, that'd be much more respected than a RWD thingy. Keep the power going through the front wheels, that's half the charm of a Mini!

It's also worth bearing in mind that 400bhp in a Mini would probably be lethal, I've been in a 1380 with ~120bhp and I thought that I was going to die, 150 would be terrifying, 200 would be horrific... need I say more?

Have a blast in a decent 1380 first, to see what you're gonna be dealing with. You mihgt find that it'll be powerful enough for your needs.

#27 Dan

Dan

    On Sabbatical

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,354 posts

Posted 30 September 2004 - 08:31 PM

Kind of like what Tom said, do you remember Clarksons test drive of the Mini Hot Rod? It was hilarious, it scared him to death but he loved it. And that 'only' had 160Bhp. No serious problem with traction though, and you can correct for torque steer with a kit from Jack Knight. Just offering another option. But I do think you'll get respect for a rear drive thingy, if only for the engineering and commitment involved.

I think the kerb weight of the last edition Mini was 850 - 900 Kg by the way. Can't find it written down anywhere at the moment. That obviously includes around 180 Kg of twin-point A series. BMH should be able to tell you the weight of a bare shell and built subframes if that helps, just pretend you intend to buy some and need to know for shipping or something if they get difficult!

#28 16vminiman

16vminiman

    Stage One Kit Fitted

  • Noobies
  • PipPipPip
  • 71 posts

Posted 30 September 2004 - 08:47 PM

points taken on board tom, the rebuild of my mini has caused a few headaches deciding on what to go for, i can telll you!!

my problem is that i'm the sort of person who changes their mind alot...
the basic reason for taking the mini off the road and rebuilding it is to get my ulimate mini/car, the problem is there is just too many avenues you can go down when rebuilding a mini, engine choice is just one of the many questions.

my reasoning for going for a non mini engine in the first place was down to reliabilty + cost. i knew that if i had a 1380 pumping out 120bhp, then 6 months from then i'd be looking for more power, and when you try and get 150+ bhp out of the a-series it gets costly and has reliabilty issues (mainly g/box - this is where alot of the cost goes too!).

when the vauxhall and honda conversions came along it seemed to be perfect, 150bhp, 5 speeed g/box, and all for about 1K. buuuut....then i though about the limits of the vaxhall engine set up, and that you can go to about 300bhp (turbo'd), but i wouldn't like to do that in a fwd car!! (even 200bhp seems dodgy at times)

so...Rear wheel drive...mid mounted vauxhall/honda, single bike engine, twin bike engine, turbo'd, supercharged, etc etc....the list goes on.

my checklist for the engine choice is as follows...

1. Must have potential for major tuning...reason being that i'd like to keep the same engine setup, but be able to develop it further.
2. Must be value for money - vauxhall = £400, honda R1 = £6-800 each, the hayabusa at £3-4000 and the honda vtec at £2000 (ish) are more than i'd want spend, as i've said before, this is a pay-as-i-build type project.
3. Must be usable on Motorways for a few hours at a time and be good(ish!) in traffic, therefore musn't be too loud, or a race tuned engine eg. have no power below 4000rpm.
4. Must be good bang per buck, as i don't have loads of diposable income, therefore a kad 16valve a-series with 5 speed s/c c/r 'box producing 180bhp at £12k is out of the question..!!


as you can probably tell, my project had little beginnings...... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


as for the charm factor, when my car is done, i'd also have a late 60's/early 70's mini on 10's with a 998 engine, with 1275 head, twin carbs, producing about 80bhp, lowered, and with classic buckets, costing about £1500-2000, nothing majorly special, just something to use everday for the fun factor, 'because i'd need a break from the ultimate mini at times!!!

you only live once after all, i dont' want to sit back looking at my nicely finsished mini and say, " i wish i'd done this" or i regret doing it like that"... i know there will be some thing i'd wish i did differently, but hey.......


sorry about the loooooong post, congrats to the people who actually read the whole thing....you're at the end!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

#29 16vminiman

16vminiman

    Stage One Kit Fitted

  • Noobies
  • PipPipPip
  • 71 posts

Posted 30 September 2004 - 08:57 PM

cheers dan, i havn't heard of or seen the clarkson test thingy...any more info??

was that the special edition mini hotrod (the oneoff thinngy) that rover did in the mid/late 90's??
it had the fully alloy pannelled interior, from what i remember seeing it in mags
would be nice to see it though, clarkson always cracks me up!

800kg's seems feasable then, i didn't know an mpi lump was 180 kgs, s**t thats heavy!!

that's put paid to my mate idea that he can lift one by himself!!! :rolleyes:

#30 Dan

Dan

    On Sabbatical

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,354 posts

Posted 30 September 2004 - 09:16 PM

Sorry, that should have been about 180 Lbs! The 850 A series and box weighed 150 Lbs and very much could be picked up by one (fairly big) person. But the 180 should be a good guestimate for the complete twin point power unit (including cooling system) since that's what you'll be ditching.

And yes, it was the Rover/Jack Knight Hot Rod which Clarkson tested. It was on Top Gear. It was dead funny, he said his ears were bleeding.

And you seem to be overly concerned about having lots of power in a front-drive setup. Remember that these 16v Vauxhall and Honda units are designed specifically for front wheel drive cars, and while I understand that the Astra's and Cavalier's and everything else they were fitted to had a well developed chassis and a very stable platform it is quite easy to glue a Mini to the road. Mini race tuning is very well advanced and parts and kits are available which give the car phenominal road holding and stability, even above it's standard high levels of grip.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users