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Injection to extremties


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#1 stevesmini

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 10:29 PM

I was cosidering injecting my mini on an alloy inlet manifold with 6 injectors from an inline 4 motorbike engine 3 on each inlet port two for gasoline introduction at 45 degrees at twelve o'clock and 6 o'clock as so the mixture mixes better then a 3rd for nitrous injection prior to the fuel injectors so a flowed by the air flow does anyone think this is a silly idea or have any ideas and shall i go ahead and fit it to my 937 engine.

#2 Dev

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 08:50 AM

All depends on how you plan to control all those injectors? how do you intend to fire? what injectors are you using?

you can use four or even five injectors on an mpi BUT its a case of getting the set up perfect. I'm not sure how this would work with a 998.

#3 maph2

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 10:11 AM

what ecu is going to run all these injectors?

why bike injectors?

where are the injectors going to be placed - wet throat or direct?

have you read the injection tuning articles by keith calver?

and whats a 937 engine?

#4 fikus01

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 01:34 PM

bored out 850??

it has the potential to work but you'd need a fully programmable ecu system and in reality it wouldnt be any better than an su carb!!

you wouldnt need 2 injectors running all the time!! 1 can cope quit hapily, you need 1 for nos and another for extra fuel when running on nos but that usually comes with the nos kit!

Edited by fikus01, 16 February 2007 - 01:36 PM.


#5 Dev

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 02:44 PM

I wouldn't agree with what KC says there i would go more towards graham bell or dave walker.

I would also suggest using rover injectors 460's if you can get them but 123's will be fine.

#6 stevesmini

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 03:42 PM

i was thinking of bike injectors cause these could then be connected to a stand alone bike injection ecu or even a megasquirt and bike fuel pump as more compact and can deal with a lot more psi it was gonna come out a fireblade so would be 440cc injectors i believe. the 937 is a bored out 850 with flat top cooper piston lightened crank and rods plus its had head and pistons skimmed so around .015 clearance so could get it to rev over 8k i was thinking as bikes fuel management is made for in excess of 11k average this would be best way to go, also with twice the injectors i could try some force feed induction.

#7 Sprocket

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 06:18 PM

Injectors are injectors, car or bike. Certain bike injectors may be more compact, but work exactly the same as any other.

There are several types with any combination of the following, top feed, side feed, high impeadance, low impeadance, high pressure low pressure, and lastly, more obviously, varying flow rates.

Why would you want to use a bike ECU, unless its mappable, its useless, it will have a totaly incorrect fuel and ignition map. Also if you do go the route of an aftermarket programable ECU like Megasquirt, then injectors wont matter other than their flow rate.

Theres more to fuel injection on and A series engine than meets the eye.

You also have to ask yourself why you want fuel injection. Is it because of ease of tuning and engine set up? Power? Enmissions?

When you say taking it to the max, what do consider the max? What set up do you intend to run? Have you thought about it deeply enough?

Custom fuel injection for the A series is not easy.

#8 Dev

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 11:32 AM

or cheap.

#9 stevesmini

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 12:48 PM

Thats why i set up this post i want to know what i can get the most accurate set up i thought that cause of the set-up of a bike engine (injectors and ecu) that they can manage a high rate of squirt.

minidev the engine is not a cheap build to start with

#10 Sprocket

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 03:14 PM

A wet manifold is the only way to go at the minuit. Port injection is currently waiting on code development and testing to get it to work to any degree.

The ECU using a wet manifold is free choice, however fully mappable is a must.

I recon you would have a theoretical power output of 90hp at 10000rpm and 80%VE normaly aspirated(pretty much a race engine by the way). Given that, you would only need two injectors at least 260cc each, so you were way off with four injectors at 400+cc each.

Im a little confused as to why you would want another injector for the NOS. NOS have their own nozzles that are calibrated, IE the provide the correct amount of fuel for the amount of NOX injected. Get this wrong at 6000rpm and its by by engine Very quickly. Adding more fuel helps keep the combustion temps down but is inefficient.

Id suggest researching all the mini forums regarding fuel injecting an A series as well as NOS. You have chosen two very complicated systems and want to run on a high reving engine. This will be very difficult, time consuming, and VERY expensive to get to work correctly. learn to walk before you can run. Either run NOS with a cab set up first and get it working, then move onto injecting it. Or get the fuel injection working first then move onto the NOS.

Research research research. There is tons of information available on all the subjects all over the internet.

Simply saying that you were going to use a bike set up and four large injectors because of its high revs tels me you have not done any research on fuel injection and using another two injectors for the NOS tells me that you have not done any research on the NOS either.

Im not being funny, nor saying that this engine wont work, but you need to know exactly what you want and how you are going to go about it. Simply asking for people to tell you how, is not going to get you anywhere very fast. This is a totaly custon set up to which there is a multidue of answeres and ways to go about it, all dependant on the hardware you have.

Id say to get you started, first size up your injectors for the theoretical power output normaly aspirated at 80% duty cycle. Then decide how you are going to place the enjectors in the inlet tract, custom manifold, standard manifold with bespoke throttle body, dual/ single throttle body. Then decide which ECU you are going to use, Emerald, Alpha, Megasquirt, VEMS. That then should give you the information you need for all your sensors that you will need.

NOS kits usualy come with nozzles with a set bhp increase, buy the kit for the amount of power you want extra to that of the normaly aspirated engine, its simply a matter of following the manufacturers instructions.

With all this, you will need an electric high pressure fuel pump that flows enough fuel for the max power and a bit more. you will need to run at least 8mm flow and return lines frm the tank. Inertia switch is required for the pump cut off. A pressure regulator is reqired to ensure a constant fuel pressure at the injector nozzle.

Then there is the custom wiring loom to make it all work. not a simple task on its own.

How much of this have you considered.

Some links to get you started.

http://www.emeraldm3...ts_Aseries.html

http://www.specialis...nt-welcome-null

http://www.autoperfo...ml/fpspecs.html

http://www.starchak.ca/efi/siamese.htm

http://www.diy-nitrous.fsnet.co.uk/

http://www.m-techaut...ec_glossary.htm

http://www.injector....orselection.php

http://www.injectors...e.com/index.htm

http://users.erols.c...ss/tableifc.htm

http://twminduction....tleBody-FR.html

http://www.akamoto.co.uk/

http://www.turbobits...alog/index.html

http://www.nitrouskits.co.uk/

http://www.nitrousnos.com/

http://www.msefi.com/

http://www.enginelog...m/embasics.html

http://www.trigger-wheels.com/

http://www.vems.hu/




That should keep you busy for a while




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