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full respray soon, sorting out rust issues....


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#1 Prawn

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Posted 14 October 2004 - 10:07 AM

morning people :angry:
a mate of mine has offered to respray my mini, if i do the prep and pay paint costs.
so
im taking it off the road, as ive got use of a double garage
im having both doors reskinned, and i know this isnt really something i can do
but what about the rear valance?
most of the car is sound, and its just a case of grinding a few bits away and filling here and there
but
i noticed yesterday that ive actually got a few small holes in my rear valance, right up near the bumper
how easy is it to replace? is it something i coujld do myself or not>?
i am on a fairly tight budget
if i were to pay someone to do it, what sort of price should i expect to pay to reskin two doors and replace the rear valance?
none of it will need painting at all, as im doing all that myself (primer at least)
any help would be great
thanks
nick

oh, 1 more question
obviously pattern panels are much cheaper than genuine parts, is it worth getting genuine skins and valance? or are pattern parts up ot the job?
thanks again
nick

#2 EVO6RSS

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Posted 14 October 2004 - 03:40 PM

Prawn,

Buy pattern panels as believe it or not the tooling is actually better for producing these than what heritage got from Rover. Some of the heritage panels I have seen have been shocking.

A rear valance will be easy enough to do. You are gonna need some tools to do the job properly mind.

A decent drill for drilling out the spot welds. (the valence is only spot welded on).

An air saw/cutter/snips.. these are great and make removing rusty panels as easy as cutting through butter.. LOL! this is run off a compressor which will be expensive. See if you can beg or borrow one..

A spot welder.. Do not be tempted to try and MIG pannels on as you will just make a complete mess of it. Use the right tools for the job.. :cheese: expensive again, beg or borrow one.

Welding clamps to hold on the new panel..

Minute it is on cover the lot in primer so it will not start to rust again.. :ohno:

You say you don't have a lot of rust.. take everything off. arches, bumpers, grill, trims, windows etc. You will need to do this if you are gonna get it sprayed anyways.

Hunt, hunt and hunt somemore, you will find a lot more rust than u think is there. get a small and pointy hammer (you know the one the MOT man whacks your body work with at MOT time). Tap the sills to start with and anywhere else you can see bubbles of rust coming through.

Me and Jules replaced just about every panel on her mini.. 6 months on and after a full respray a little rust is coming back.. :angry: on the one rear quater that did not have a repair panal is starting to show a little at the bottom near the sill and the arch (common place). The other spot is on the front panel where it joins the nearside wing at the front, should have listened to myself and not the welder and put a new one on when he said it was OK.. :nugget: heh ho get it done over the winter..

Cheers,

Rich.

#3 dklawson

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Posted 14 October 2004 - 04:39 PM

I would add only a couple of comments to what EV06RSS said.

The rear valence is welded in place as part of a stack of panels: Rear valence, boot floor, rear panel. It is also secured wish closure panels on the outside ends. Remove as suggested by drilling out the spot welds followed by a chisel between the joints you're separating.

You CAN MIG or TIG these in place with good results if you use plug welds AND if you are VERY careful to remove all rust sandwiched by the remaining panels. If you do MIG or TIG this panel on with plug welds, spray the flange on the valence and that left by the boot floor/rear panel with weld through primer. Your paint supply store should have it. If you do borrow a spot welder, strip any primer away from the areas where the spot welds will be located. You want good metal to metal contact.

Regardless of whether you choose Heritage, M-Machine, or generic panels, be sure to buy new closure panels at the same time.

#4 Bluemini

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Posted 14 October 2004 - 04:46 PM

If the rear valance only has a few minor holes, then just cut them back to good metal and seem weld new metal in place. A dam site easier than replacing the whole thing.
Door skins are easy to do, just take your time and make sure everything lines up nicely before you weld it on fully.

#5 Prawn

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Posted 14 October 2004 - 06:32 PM

cheers guys, ill buy pattern panels then :angry:
wheres the best place to get them?
rich: the holes on the rear valance are a bit too large i think, its quite a bit of it, just seems to have rotted away :S
ill go pattern, i think ill pay to have the valance replaced, a mate of mine works at a body shop run by a few mini enthusiasts apparently, so should get some sorta discount....

ive got a bit of rust under teh screen as well
can this jsut be cut out?
someone suggested cutting it out and 'lead loading' it, ive not heard of the technique before, does it work?
id rather not have to fit a whole new scuttle....
cheers again
nick

#6 Dan

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Posted 14 October 2004 - 09:20 PM

Well you can't lead load if you take away the metal that is already there. Lead loading is like a metal version of body filler and is the proper way to fill dents and dings (better than nasty resin IMHO). You can't use it to sculpt dirty great areas of rusty panel replacement. You will want to be using repair plates around the scuttle if you can as this is one of the most horrendous panels to replace completely.
Personally I would say that real spotting is the way to go with nearly any repair to a Mini, as they are almost completely spotted together originally. But even if you can rent an automatic unit, spotters are tricky to use. You need to know how to set it up and what type of steel you have and stuff. And corrosion or primer etc. between the leaves that are already in place needs to be considered when setting the timer. It certainly isnt simply a case of pulling the trigger. And door skins aren't actually welded in place I believe, except at the front and rear outside top edges where the are migged to the window frame. They are crimped around the frame with a flange rolling thing. But maybe they are welded after crimping and I just never noticed.

Bluemini, do you really think it is easier to flush weld a patch into the valence than replace it? And get a good finish? That has to be the easiest panel to replace on the whole car

#7 Woody

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Posted 15 October 2004 - 06:43 AM

Door skins are spot welded onto the frame after the flange is rolled over , mini doorskins are dificult to get right as they are very flat , first attempts are usualy very ripply , I have heared of a roller type thing for doing skins for the amature , the skilled man will use a panel hammer and dolly for this
in the technical collage by us they use mini doors to do the skills test of fitting a door skin .
as for price , I would charge IRO £160 for 2 skins and a rear valence (if the doors were striped ready ) , this is cheap , be warry of anyone cheaper as they must be cutting corners or bodging !

#8 Mini V

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 11:02 PM

while we r on the topic.... hehe... how much would a full respray cost? bearing in mind there are bound to be differences in price from garage to garage.... a rough estimate anyone? (solid colour... nothing fancy or metallic) :angry: cheers!




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