24 replies to this topic

[koss]

By the time you buy a cut-off saw, tube notcher, mig welder, tig welder, gas bottles, radial arm drill, lazer cutter, milling machine, lathe, cnc centre, mandrel bender, press, guillotine, pan folder, rollers, swageing machine, buffing machine, a shed the size of an aircraft hanger,a farm with out buildings, some staff, rates, mortgage, utility's and a wife and family.
Have I missed anything?
I think these cars are cheap. The quality of the welds, the finish on the parts and attention to detail made me buy it.

[R1mini]

If I had known what I know now, I would of bought a kit of Chris, it has taken ages and cost at least as much as a kit anyway and I still haven't finished it. The only upside is I have some good tools out of it

Cheers
David

[R1minimagic]

And the skills you have learnt.

[mika]

And the skills you have learnt.

looks like this posting has drifted i thought it was just someone looking for help not someone setting up to make large amounts of spaceframes
i think if it helps people build safe cars why not share info but hay thats just my out look

[R1mini]

And the skills you have learnt.

looks like this posting has drifted i thought it was just someone looking for help not someone setting up to make large amounts of spaceframes
i think if it helps people build safe cars why not share info but hay thats just my out look

If he wants to make a one off Zcars style copy then OK, he can do that just by looking at the pictures in the project threads but a millimetre perfect copy of a commercial product is not acceptable, Chris has spent hundreds if not thousands of hours, designing, refining, jigging, testing, modifications, more testing to get to the product he has today.

If it was your design and you had put those sort of hours in, you would be less than happy to give it away and even less happy if someone gave them away on a forum

David

[DivineMisfit]

I have read through this thread, taken both opinions into account but what to post another question.
I agree, the man hours put into designing something as spectacular as the Z Cars kit is plentiful, but not all people are engineers to this degree.
So, if the so called "plans" were NOT for commercial use, but where purchased for a fee, will that be more justified?
For example, I would love to build my R1 Mini, but will cost me a fortune JUST to ship (over £1000), which puts any hope of the project to a pityful end.
So what are your views on purchasing the plans for NON-commercial use?

Whilst I have the opportunity, thanks Chris for being an engineering genius and redefining the Mini as we know it, a true inspiration.

[Ethel]

It would be commercial suicide to put details of how to copy your product into the public domain.

I can fully understand Chris wanting to protect his hard work and livelihood. He may well find protecting intellectual property is not at all easy. His car is far from the only spaceframer out there and the Mini itself is somebody else's intellectual property.

The burden of proof would would be on him to show any car was a copy of his and breached any of his registered intellectual property rights.

[howson02]

If it was your design and you had put those sort of hours in, you would be less than happy to give it away and even less happy if someone gave them away on a forum

David

Thats exactly how i see things, i always like to think "what if it was me..." before acting on circumstances similar.

[Jammy]

I stand by the point that if your going to be building it yourself, you should be designing it yourself too. This kind of a project isn't one of those where you can just follow instructions and plans that say, weld bar A to bar B.

[R1minimagic]

To be bluntly honest, I dont think it makes a blind bit of difference where most of the bars are and when it comes to the suspension, trailing arms have been around for donkeys years as we all know and so have rose joints and adjustable geometry!! There is nothing new here, just someone has taken the initiative to make the kits available for people to buy. Anyone with the engineering skills can make something like this, but turning it into a business is a different matter....