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Electric Mini!!!


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#31 Silicon Skum

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 11:59 AM

Hi,

I did look at using a AC motor but found that i would need complicated and expencive electronics. I dont think curtis do AC controllers! Also AC motors get their power from their high rpm, they have little torque compared to a DC motor so i would need a gearbox.

I want to use a Zilla controller, Its specially designed for cars, its a 156V 1000A controller. It also costs 1.5K so i will be saving up for a while!

Generators are not really worth it because even though they will recharge the batteries, it wont make that much of a difference to range.

Suren


Using an AC inverter on a DC strorage battery to drive the motor would just add losses to the the system anyway, you would waste power in the inverter even if the batteries were wired up to give 110 / 240v DC with no voltage increase from the inverter.


I wouldn't rule out the use on a genny just yet! It has been done - and works VERY well. The genny is used to both recharge the batteries and provide additional power to the motor (one at a time obviously, you would need a killer genset to do both!) the motor can also be rigged to run directly from the genny, so handy if the battery bank is totaly flat. Think I read about the story first on one of the "alternative energy" website, "Mother Earth News" - I think.

Worth looking into anyway! A genny with an electric start would be ideal, it would only be required when the batteries are low, or when the load on the batteries is increased (going up a steep hill say). Batteries are not linear in their output - the less Amps you pull, the longer they last and provide MORE power than if you drain them faster with a heavy load.
Don't forget the sealed lead acid battery Ahr rating is based on a c20 (5% of rated capacity) discharge curve. Some are based on a faster 5hour discharge of 0.2C.

Also Lead acid abtteries should not be run below 80 - 85% of charge (75% is absolute max before damage occours) and like to be topped up frequently. For deep discharge you would be better off with Ni-Cd batteries - but these MUST be run low before charging or they will suffer from "memory effect". Ni-Cd and Ni-MH batteries are actually fairly simple to recharge without the use of overly complicated charging devices, just simple current limiting and monitoring of battery temperature (temp will rise as the battery reaches full charge) they are also tollerant of mild overchargaring. Expensive though.
I would think about running a hybrid battery bank, lead acid and Ni-cd, with the Ni-Cds only used for long trips / deep discharge use.

There is one type of battery I have been thinking about - Ni-Fe (aka "Eddison battery"), these batteries will NEVER need replaced (some over 100 years old are still in daily use!). BUT they can only give out relatively low power per weight compared to other types. They have been used in electric cars though (even 100 years ago!). Hard to get hold of too. :(

It's an interesting project, and something I considered doing myself. Keep us updated as to how it goes. :)

SS

#32 codd_coupe

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 03:05 PM

The Curtis controller I was on about is the DC version. It was a great controller, all you would need is a direction switch and a pot on the throttle. Unfortunately the company has closed where I worked, so no chance of any unused stock being available.

The SepEX controller is good because it can run on 48v, so you can parallel the batteries. I'm not sure how much they cost, but I would think that it was well worth the money.

Did you consider mounting the motor on the top of a mini gearbox? You could have 4 forward gears and 4 reverse gears. You'd be able to keep the motor in the most efficient part of it's range. You'd just need some gearbox oil, an adapter plate and a couple of gear and a chain!

Looking forward to see how you get on with it. A very interesting project.

Edited by codd_coupe, 17 August 2007 - 03:05 PM.


#33 Bungle

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 03:10 PM

how about a generator on the front wheels and a motor on the back wheels

then it would charge its self as it drives, meaning you would never have to charge the battery's :(

#34 codd_coupe

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 03:54 PM

That would be stupid, when you could put an alternator on the motor and use it to run a charger to keep the battery topped up! You could go on forever. :D :withstupid:

#35 minivanman

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 10:26 PM

By jove Bungle, I think you've cracked it. A perpetual motion machine!

#36 lvm18

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 10:32 PM

The law of diminishing returns comes into play.

If perpetual motion was possible via this method, we'd all be driving around in electric cars by now. Many have tried, but no one has cracked it yet.

Kind regards,

David

#37 Bungle

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 06:32 AM

By jove Bungle, I think you've cracked it. A perpetual motion machine!



it takes a good electrician to come up with a idea as good as this

#38 Retro_10s

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 06:26 PM

it takes a good electrician to come up with a idea as good as this

yeah who did you steal the idea from bumgle?

#39 brightsparkz

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 07:44 PM

Wow, didnt think some of you guys would know so much about the electrical side! I know a fair bit about motors and batteries as i used to enter robotwars http://www.team-supernova.co.uk . Everything was on a smaller scale but worked in the same way. I would look into other battery technologies but they are too expencive at the moment and i need to finalise the design.

I did look into mounting the motor above the gearbox, it has been done before but manily because it is simple to do. I think when using a DC motor that has huge torque a gearbox isnt necessary. Remember, on petrol engined cars the gear box is there to stop the engine stalling at low rpms, motors dont stall!

Bungle, invent a A perpetual motion machine... and you would be a very rich man. You would also have single handedly stopped global warming, and we would never have to pay for gas/electricity/petrol again.

Here is a problem for u guys...

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image


The disc is 8.5" dia and 8mm thick. The caliper is VW one with the hand brake mech. What i need to know is that right now the whole pad does not sit on the disc. The top corners of the pads miss the disc completely. This is a bad thing right? Should i lower the caliper so that more of the pad hits the disc? Can be done but means i will have to grind off some of the steel caliper bracket.

Any ideas?

#40 koss

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 12:12 AM

Wow, didnt think some of you guys would know so much about the electrical side! I know a fair bit about motors and batteries as i used to enter robotwars http://www.team-supernova.co.uk . Everything was on a smaller scale but worked in the same way. I would look into other battery technologies but they are too expencive at the moment and i need to finalise the design.

I did look into mounting the motor above the gearbox, it has been done before but manily because it is simple to do. I think when using a DC motor that has huge torque a gearbox isnt necessary. Remember, on petrol engined cars the gear box is there to stop the engine stalling at low rpms, motors dont stall!

Bungle, invent a A perpetual motion machine... and you would be a very rich man. You would also have single handedly stopped global warming, and we would never have to pay for gas/electricity/petrol again.

Here is a problem for u guys...

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image


The disc is 8.5" dia and 8mm thick. The caliper is VW one with the hand brake mech. What i need to know is that right now the whole pad does not sit on the disc. The top corners of the pads miss the disc completely. This is a bad thing right? Should i lower the caliper so that more of the pad hits the disc? Can be done but means i will have to grind off some of the steel caliper bracket.

Any ideas?

Grind or go for bigger disk

#41 miniboo

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 12:39 AM

could try a different caliper like a pug106 or 206 or even 307 caliper?

#42 codd_coupe

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 04:18 PM

The MGF is a good caliper to use. They have been used on the rear of GTM Coupes with the normal mini disks on the front. They apparently balance out well, so you wouldn't need to do anything fancy to get the front back balance to work well. They are fairly easy to fit onto a mini hub too.

#43 brightsparkz

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 09:06 PM

Decided to use the VW calipers as i already had them. I ground the mounting point so that it sat lower so the whole pad hit the disc.

Posted Image
Posted Image

#44 fikus01

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 10:40 PM

i've thought as lot about this i did email the people at tesla and ask how much a bettery pack cost but they never replied! they mentioned on their site they were doing them as a seperate unit!

#45 brightsparkz

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 11:44 AM

i've thought as lot about this i did email the people at tesla and ask how much a bettery pack cost but they never replied! they mentioned on their site they were doing them as a seperate unit!


The thing with the batteries they used is that you need special battery management and special chargers. would cost a bomb! Think they were willing to supply batteries to other car manufactuers but not to individuals.




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