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Minitastic Coil Spring Conversion


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#31 kwacktastic

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 06:52 PM

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#32 Lord Jez

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 06:34 PM

just fitted two of the long stroke springs to my mayfair, one back and one front. its pretty tough even with the subframes stripped out. i'm doing a complete rebuild so everything is stripped bare. hopefully do the other two this weekend.

#33 Father Ted

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 02:28 PM

Hi Kwack,

Where abouts in Essex are you based??? Ive been thinking of getting the same set up from minitastic and live in Colchester if your local would you mind taking me for a spin? Would help me make up my mind as im torn between the minitastic coils and the Moulton smootha ride kit.


John, did you get the run out in Kwack's car? What do you think?
I too was thinking about Moulten Smootha Ride but after looking at this topic etc I'm swaying towards the coils, I'm running on 10" wheels so not too sure if Smootha Rides might be better.
Anybody got anymore advice please?

#34 sdanys

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:08 AM

Bonjour,

You have opted for "fast road" minitastic coil springs.
Is it enough soft ? My use is principaly in town (Paris and suburb) where streets are not very flats !!
At the present time, with genuine rubber springs, my Sealine 1955 is a little jumping on irregularities of autoroute and very harsh in town. I wish with coil springs, the little autoroute's irregularities will be absorbed, so the bruises of town ?

Have you noticed a significant collapse on back car when one or two passengers ?
I give you my e-mail
Thank you,
Best regards,
Daniel
[email protected]






I've finally got round to fitting the Minitastic coil spring conversion to my '96 Sportspack - what a difference! It took the best part of a day to complete both sides at the back and the best part of a day for each side on the front. I opted for the "Fast Road" vesion and have the 36-way adjustable Gaz dampers.

I know I'm a bit of an "Old Fart" compared to most contributors to this site, but that doesn't stop me driving my Mini enthusiastically! Since fitting the new springs, the ride comfort has improved immensely, without sacrificing much in the way of handling. If anything, cornering grip seems to have improved somewhat as the car no-longer "skips" round the corners. I'm going to leave it for a week or two after which I'll be looking to get it properly set-up on one of those fancy jigs - the car also has adjustable bottom arms, tie rods, etc so the castor, camber, wheel aligment will all need checking. I've kept the ride height standard as that makes negotiating speed bumps less problematic.

As for the conversion, the back springs were easy to fit, apart from the old rubber springs were siezed to the trumpets and required a fair bit of "persuading". The front springs however were a pain in the neck as it required the top suspension arm to be removed - not an easy job when you've got fingers like sausages! Interestingly, the Minitastic kit appears to have a longer stroke than some of the alternatives on the market, yet doesn't require a suspension compressor (as used on the rubber springs) if it ever requires any maintenance.

Yosuke (at Minitastic) was very helpful at the point of sale and even let me have a go of his imported demonstrator. It was that which convinced me that coil springs was the way to go - for my particular requirement - I'm built for comfort, not speed!

I'll let you know if there are any significant developments in the coming weeks, but so far I'm very impressed by the improvement achieved.

Cheers,

Kwack



#35 sdanys

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 01:19 PM

Minisport buy obligatory the both Moulton smootha ride and the high-low kit for adjust height of the car, so you can get the genuine heigh which come with 10 " wheel.
Cordialement,
daniel




Hi Kwack,

Where abouts in Essex are you based??? Ive been thinking of getting the same set up from minitastic and live in Colchester if your local would you mind taking me for a spin? Would help me make up my mind as im torn between the minitastic coils and the Moulton smootha ride kit.


John, did you get the run out in Kwack's car? What do you think?
I too was thinking about Moulten Smootha Ride but after looking at this topic etc I'm swaying towards the coils, I'm running on 10" wheels so not too sure if Smootha Rides might be better.
Anybody got anymore advice please?



#36 sdanys

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 01:28 PM

Bonjour,

You have opted for "fast road" coil springs.
Do you think "soft" version is too flexible ?
My principal use is in Parsi and suburb : many irregularities on streets !
Do the back coil springs too lower when there are 2 passengers - in "fast" version, and in "soft" version ?
I think keep my genuine dampers : ordinary Kayaba with oil.

Best regards,
Daniel
[email protected]




this sounds very interesting. i heard of these when they 1st came out but wasnt sure how theyd fair. if you dont mind me asking, how much was the full kit exactly? and where are minitastic based?

thanks

db



I assume the prices on their website are still current. I bought the full kit with "fast road" springs and hi-los. I also bought the adjustable Gaz dampers - I'd seriously recommend you consider these too as they complement the coils springs very well. I've since backed the dampers off further - I'm now running one click at the back with three up-front. The ride is very compliant and not at all bouncy. If Yosuke ever gets his power steering kit down to a sensible price, I may be paying him another visit soon!


Edited by sdanys, 19 August 2008 - 01:30 PM.


#37 sdanys

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 01:44 PM

Bonjour,

For setting coil springs ("fast" or "soft" version), is it necessary to change or modifie cambers, or others geometric front or back wheel train ?

Thank you,
Daniel
[email protected]





It's been a week or so since the work was completed and I'm still very happy with my choice. Not only is the ride improved significantly, the handling has improved too - the car now seems to hang-on for longer in corners with no signs of the tyres losing grip. I've still got the dampers set on a very gentle setting - three clicks on the back and six on the front.

The car also now appears more stable at speed though this may be more to do with having the suspension geometry returned to near normal settings. The steering is positive and direct with very little evidence of drift. Nor does it roll down road cambers in the manner it did before the work. I've also taken the car out for a run round the twisty bit fully-loaded - three large lads sat in it and it coped extremely well. I opted for the "Fast Road" version of the springs and think that this is a good compromise. I suspect the "Long Stroke" softer version would be a little on the soft side and may introduce more body roll. The Fast Road version however seems to work well with the Gaz dampers.

So in summary, I'd strongly recommend this conversion for someone looking to improve the ride of their Mini without sacrificing any of the Mini's famous handling capability. Obviously the purists would argue that it's no longer running "proper" Mini suspension, but it certainly makes it a more viable proposition for everyday motoring in the 21st century - speed bumps, cattle grids, expansion joints, potholes, etc no-longer rattle my cage!

I'll let you know if there are any further developments, but now I'm off to consider my options regarding tuning the engine. Now the suspension is fully sorted, the chassis could cope with a bit more oomph! After all, it'd be rude not to!.....



#38 kwacktastic

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 12:12 PM

Bonjour Daniel,

In response to your first question, I find the "fast road" spring perfectly acceptable for use on Britsh roads - this ride is still firm but it's much more compliant and capable of absorbing large surface irregularites. From my limited experience of French roads, I'd say they were no worse than those in south-east England so I expect either type would be suitable - it really depends on what you want from the car! When I spoke to Yosuke (at Minitastic) about what could be expected from the upgrade, he said the softer springs would give a ride "similar to that of a French car" - by that I assume he meant a modern one, not a 2CV! The "fast road" springs we said to be more to "normal" Mini tastes - being a mini, it was never designed to give a "magic carpet" ride like a big Citroen!

My installation now includes adjustable bottom arms, adjustable uprated tie-bars and adjustable Gaz dampers. This gives sufficient adjustment to make the car handle very well. I've made no adjustments to the rear camber at this stage though I may consider this at some point in the future. The Gaz damper seem to work particularly well with this conversion and I enable you to make immediate changes when the mood takes you!

I hope that helps and good luck with whichever one you choose.

Kwack

#39 sdanys

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 02:00 PM

Merci, Kwack

French roads are regular, but I spoke about streets in Paris and suburb.
And I principaly use my Sealine in towns.

Yes, Yokuse means recent french cars, like Citroën C1, C2, or Peugeot 107, or Renault Twingo.
With 2 passengers at back places, do level significantly lows on back of the car ? 1) with fast road version, 2) with soft version, but here, you have not sit these items.

I think it is possible to not change bottom arms, cambers ... if I keep the genuine height of the car ?
What do you think about ?

I suppose the up whorl of the front springs must adjust in a circular slot at the inside top of the 2 "towers" which contain the coil springs ? Without, the springs should be a little too "free" in their boxs ! is'nt it ?


Thank you, and
best regards

Daniel
[email protected]


Bonjour Daniel,

In response to your first question, I find the "fast road" spring perfectly acceptable for use on Britsh roads - this ride is still firm but it's much more compliant and capable of absorbing large surface irregularites. From my limited experience of French roads, I'd say they were no worse than those in south-east England so I expect either type would be suitable - it really depends on what you want from the car! When I spoke to Yosuke (at Minitastic) about what could be expected from the upgrade, he said the softer springs would give a ride "similar to that of a French car" - by that I assume he meant a modern one, not a 2CV! The "fast road" springs we said to be more to "normal" Mini tastes - being a mini, it was never designed to give a "magic carpet" ride like a big Citroen!

My installation now includes adjustable bottom arms, adjustable uprated tie-bars and adjustable Gaz dampers. This gives sufficient adjustment to make the car handle very well. I've made no adjustments to the rear camber at this stage though I may consider this at some point in the future. The Gaz damper seem to work particularly well with this conversion and I enable you to make immediate changes when the mood takes you!

I hope that helps and good luck with whichever one you choose.

Kwack



#40 kwacktastic

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 02:14 PM

Hi Daniel,

I only have experience of the "fast road" version, as that's what's fitted to my car. Of course, wih a couple of passengers in the back, the ride height will lower, but no more than it did with rubber cones.

There is no need to change the bottom arms, or any other component for that matter. I replaced mine with uprated adjustable components so that I could make fine adjustments as required. I've retained the standard ride height as it is not recommended to lower a Mini with coils springs of this type by too much - the reason being that if it's too low, the spring can become unseated when the vehicle become air-borne (i.e. when jacking the car up for maintenance, etc.).

As for your final paragraph, I'm not sure what you mean. If you're referring to the ride-height adjustment, this is done using a "hi-lo" which fits below the coil spring (on the front) and is adjustable on the car. The coil spring itself sits in the tower where the rubber cone previously sat.

Hope that helps,

Kwack.

Edited by kwacktastic, 21 August 2008 - 02:14 PM.


#41 sdanys

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 12:52 PM

Bonjour Kwack,

One more, many thanks for your explains.

About springs in their shell cases.
At front of the shell car there are 2 "towers" (for each wheel suspension) where rubber springs take place. I suppose the larger crown (with a metal circle) of the rubber springs come very precisely adjusted in the inside ceiling top of these "towers", perhaps by a circle crown also, a little larger or a little smaller than the circle crown of the rubber ?

I try to attach a file with a draw.

Very sincerly yours,
Daniel

PS : I can only answer to you Monday



Hi Daniel,

I only have experience of the "fast road" version, as that's what's fitted to my car. Of course, wih a couple of passengers in the back, the ride height will lower, but no more than it did with rubber cones.

There is no need to change the bottom arms, or any other component for that matter. I replaced mine with uprated adjustable components so that I could make fine adjustments as required. I've retained the standard ride height as it is not recommended to lower a Mini with coils springs of this type by too much - the reason being that if it's too low, the spring can become unseated when the vehicle become air-borne (i.e. when jacking the car up for maintenance, etc.).

As for your final paragraph, I'm not sure what you mean. If you're referring to the ride-height adjustment, this is done using a "hi-lo" which fits below the coil spring (on the front) and is adjustable on the car. The coil spring itself sits in the tower where the rubber cone previously sat.

Hope that helps,

Kwack.

Attached Files



#42 kwacktastic

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 01:15 PM

Daniel,

I think I now understand what you mean!

The coil spring is "progressive", which means (from what I understand) that the resistance increases as it's compressed. This is achieved by having a tighter winding at the top than at the bottom i.e. the verticals are not parallel, they're tapered. The springs themselves locate securely at the top in the original fixing used by the rubber cone (i.e at the top of the "tower"), therefore, provided the spring is always under tension (i.e. the hi-lo is not adjusted so the car is too low) the spring cannot easily move sideways. At the bottom, the knuckle joint on the hi-lo positively locates its lateral position. This is plenty of room (i.e. at least a centimeter) between the coil spring and the side-wall of the tower).

I've had these installed on my car now for several thousand miles and have not found there to be a problem with lateral movement of the spring. The key thing is to keep the ride-height as close to standard as possible

Sorry if I've misunderstood your question, all I can suggest that if you're in any way concerned about the fitment, maybe Yosuke or one of his colleagues at Minitastic can clarify the installation.

Best wishes,

Kwack.

Edited by kwacktastic, 22 August 2008 - 01:17 PM.


#43 sdanys

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 02:43 PM

It's very kind of you to answer me with many precisions.
Yes I think you have understood my subject.

It seems, the inside top of the "tower" have a circular groove where the last top whorl of spring is wedged, adjusted. So in genuine fit it is the larger circular crown of rubber which is wedged at this place, I suppose.

I whish for you a good week-end,
Sincerly,
Daniel


Daniel,

I think I now understand what you mean!

The coil spring is "progressive", which means (from what I understand) that the resistance increases as it's compressed. This is achieved by having a tighter winding at the top than at the bottom i.e. the verticals are not parallel, they're tapered. The springs themselves locate securely at the top in the original fixing used by the rubber cone (i.e at the top of the "tower"), therefore, provided the spring is always under tension (i.e. the hi-lo is not adjusted so the car is too low) the spring cannot easily move sideways. At the bottom, the knuckle joint on the hi-lo positively locates its lateral position. This is plenty of room (i.e. at least a centimeter) between the coil spring and the side-wall of the tower).

I've had these installed on my car now for several thousand miles and have not found there to be a problem with lateral movement of the spring. The key thing is to keep the ride-height as close to standard as possible

Sorry if I've misunderstood your question, all I can suggest that if you're in any way concerned about the fitment, maybe Yosuke or one of his colleagues at Minitastic can clarify the installation.

Best wishes,

Kwack.



#44 sdanys

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 09:35 AM

Bonjour Kawack, and thank you.


I suppose that :

It seems, the inside top of the "tower" have a circular groove where the last top whorl of spring is wedged, adjusted. So in genuine fit it is the larger circular crown of rubber which is wedged at this place, I suppose.

Other point :
Fritz wrought me that Olli/Cooper can sell others progressives springs.
I do not succeed in sending a post to Fritz.
I have sent a post to net home of Olli/Cooper for get some doc with prices.

There is Fritz's post :

Bonjour Daniel,

I'm living in Germany - so excuse mistakes in writing.

Yesterday I got a set of 4 coils - fully built in Germany by a real MINI-enthusiast; Olli (Oliver Kesting), his
NICK on the german Classic MINI-FORUM (www.mini-forum.de) is Mr-Cooper. He's private.....no dealer.
But as far as I know, he has some new coils......from the last "production run" for forum members & friends.

Take a look at www.mini-forum.de and then the rubric.... Fahrwerk ...and the the thread... Federn vs Gummis.
You must get a member there (no problem) to see the photos in these posts.
Federn is the german word for coil; Gummi is the german word for rubber.

Mr-Cooper also has a homepage......for example www.custom-minis.de. Look at this, and may be Mr-Cooper's Tool Time & other pages.

Well, his coils are made by a reputated german manufacturer of coils, especially concerning Mr-Cooper's (and
otherones) experiences with MINI prototype coils over more than 2 years development.

AND, as far as I know, also the GERMAN TÜV (more restricitiv than the english MOT) did accept cars with
Ollie's coils. But. ask Ollie or PM him (in german forum PN).

Ollie (Mr-Cooper) provides the rear coils with special made (curved) rings (on a lathe) to suit better to the rear subframe-surface.

I asked him and he provided me a set of hilo's, special prepared for a good fit to the coils. His proposal
were BUDGET HiLo's (see www.BMC-Kestel.de), as their "flat" surface fits better to the coils then the
ORIGINAL RIPSPEED look ones by minispares, UK.
(Although, considering HiLo using with rubber cones, the RIPSPEED ones are the way to go. By the way, www.bmc-kestel.de also sell the RIPSPEED ones.....185 Euro instead of 85 Euro for a set of BUDGET)

More than 2 years of development, testing etc. now.......in the www.mini-forum.de nothing negativ heard.
They are also NÜRBURGRING approved (www.ringmini.de, ACHIM is using a special version in his blue van).
And often built in 16V-Minis, so really "well-tested" with powerful, good cornering MINIs with soft tyres.

May be this PM is of help for you.

Best regards to PARIS/France

Fritz

...
Best regards Kawack,
Daniel

It's very kind of you to answer me with many precisions.
Yes I think you have understood my subject.

It seems, the inside top of the "tower" have a circular groove where the last top whorl of spring is wedged, adjusted. So in genuine fit it is the larger circular crown of rubber which is wedged at this place, I suppose.

I whish for you a good week-end,
Sincerly,
Daniel


Daniel,

I think I now understand what you mean!

The coil spring is "progressive", which means (from what I understand) that the resistance increases as it's compressed. This is achieved by having a tighter winding at the top than at the bottom i.e. the verticals are not parallel, they're tapered. The springs themselves locate securely at the top in the original fixing used by the rubber cone (i.e at the top of the "tower"), therefore, provided the spring is always under tension (i.e. the hi-lo is not adjusted so the car is too low) the spring cannot easily move sideways. At the bottom, the knuckle joint on the hi-lo positively locates its lateral position. This is plenty of room (i.e. at least a centimeter) between the coil spring and the side-wall of the tower).

I've had these installed on my car now for several thousand miles and have not found there to be a problem with lateral movement of the spring. The key thing is to keep the ride-height as close to standard as possible

Sorry if I've misunderstood your question, all I can suggest that if you're in any way concerned about the fitment, maybe Yosuke or one of his colleagues at Minitastic can clarify the installation.

Best wishes,

Kwack.



#45 freaker

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 05:09 PM

hello,

are you still pleased with them.
as i'm looking into buying a set of these but ive seen minispares sell them but a that more expensive....

freaker




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