41 replies to this topic

[parma]

Yup but because the Mini is too heavy to be an unbraked trailer it would need to be linked to your car's braking system, which it isn't and can't be. That's why towing with an A frame is illegal, just as towing with a rope is illegal. You need a trailer or a tow truck.

Mini Weight (curb) = 617 kg (1,360 lb) to 686 kg
both our A-frames are equal to 25-30kg
That adds upto under 750kg

A-frames can really only be used legally for towing cars if

(a) the car is been recovered after a breakdown or
(b) the gross weight of the towed car and A-frame is below 750kgs

The lights on the rear of the towed vehicle must comply with other regs for trailers, including warning reflective triangles and towing vehicle reg plate.

And

The C & U (construction and use) regulations treat vehicles connected by a rigid coupling as a towing vehicle and trailer. The use of an A-frame thus means that the towed car becomes the trailer in the eyes of the law, and therefore must comply with the normal requirements of a trailer.

EDIT:- Should put here that trailers do not need TAX/MOT to be towed therefore neither does a car towed using an A-frame.

Obviously, towing weight of the driven car and the drivers license will need to comply by there own regulations.

But thats my input on this. Ive just been talking to the traffic police and FTA today about this. Turns out its perfectly legal for me to tow my mini using an A-frame.

cheers for the advice, i thought it was legal all i wanted was to no how to make one lol thank you

[parma]

is the car taxed and road legal? there's a discussion goin on somewhere else about this. If a weel touches a road then it has to be road legal.

i asked about this, and i was told it doesnt matter if its being toed, because there is no-one in it driving and it is basically a trailor which is using your car as the brakes!

so back to the point, why ask if you weren't prepared to listen to the answer, fair enough i didn't site any references but why ask a question if your just gonna reply with "i've been told your wrong, go away"

shush ure annoying!!!

[parma]

in the end i hired a trailor because i didnt no where to fit the a- frame on to. but i pulled a big low trailor and mini with a 106 1.1 all the way back from oxford to stafford with out any problems.

thanks for the helpful comments n remarks

and i think im goin to make a dolley for ease from a van axle (with brakes)

[minimender]

I made an 'A' frame to tow my race mini and used it for years. The AA even used it to complete a journey when my tow car broke down.
Never bothered by anyone.
You can set up a braking system as the AA used one a few years ago which used a system to press the brake pedal as the tow car slowed.
I will try and dig out a picture of my 'A' frame. It was simple and attatched to the subframe below and just in front of engine mounts where there are two holes.
I wired a socket to front of Mini to plug tow car lights into and used Mini rear lights and indicators so no light board required.

The AA argued about taking it but in the end agreed that it was a trailer.

Edited by minimender, 31 December 2007 - 04:51 PM.

[Jordie]

A-frame connected on a mini

You place the 2 bars with chains againist the middle of each tie bar. I wrap around the chain at least once and pull tight. The 3rd part of the frame bolts to the 2 bars. Now you swing the bar across with makes the A and locks the two bars in the right position. Now pull the chains through the hooks on the wratchet system and wratchet it up.

I normally then jolt the car forward and recheck the chains/wratchets. I do this because chains can slip around. Make sure there is no side to side movement of the frame and jobs a good un.

Poor pic, i'll have to take some more next time i use it, but heres where the A comes from.

Attached Files

•  A_frame.JPG   148.79K   5 downloads

[apbellamy]

I've tried to find out specifics about whether or not it is legal to tow with an a frame and failed. There are lots of arguments to support each, but nothing conclusive and definate.

I have an a frame and wouldn't be without it. I've towed mini's (and other cars) all over the place with no bother from PC Plod.

Rescently, I towed my clubby (no Tax, Test or engine) from south London, through the blackwall tunel then up the M11, M25 and A1 back up to Barnsley. A total distance of 200 miles. I had absolutly no problems towing it (or stopping more importantly) and every police officer/car that past wasn't interested.

As other people have said, if you follow the guidelines, you are sensible and you are safe, nobody cares.

[DUF2]

Just bring this thread back to the top.
I am wanting to tow my Elf behind my Motorhome using an A Frame. I know the car MUST have operational brakes, so I am trying to connect the brakes using an overrun cable. Despite the fact the car weights less than 750kgs, because the car has brakes, they MUST work.
I have bought second hand an Armitage A frame, which I have mounted to the subframe. I bought now connections and cables from Armitage, but I am struggling with the connection to the brake pedal. Armitage are not being very helpful. I have drilled through the bulkhead and connected the cable to the pedal using a clevis pin, however this arrangement it restricting travel on the brake pedal! Whilst this may be OK whilst the brakes are in tip top new condition, I fear that any wear resulting in a long pedal will find me unable to apply full braking force, obviously something I do not want.
Have any of you guys connected a cable to the brake pedal for this type of use?

[Magneto]

Fascinated by this topic, in the US it's not a problem and I've towed my Mini with my MINI Clubman all over the country, one such tow was 1600 miles one way!

 

If someone would like pics of my A-Frame I'll be happy to post them. Mine uses a brace bar across the front of the car, with two long bolts that go thru the lower subframe holes in the front. I use 1/2" grade 8 bolts and nuts. I buy a commercially available A frame from a retailer here, it's rated for 5,000 lbs of towed vehicle weight so a Mini is no problem. I do use safety chains hooked to the tie bars. I've done thousands of miles with it and it tows very easily, there is no brake requirement but frankly if someone has a system that works and is reliable I'd be interested as I did have a clueless driver turn in front of me and barely got slowed down enough not to hit her - as good as the MINI brakes are, that extra 1500lbs does make a difference when trying to stop!

[minimans]

https://www.etrailer...ToaAkJOEALw_wcB

 

https://rvibrake.com...nEaAiWjEALw_wcB

 

There's a load of different braking systems available, non are inexpensive! I Tow my Discovery behind my RV without any problems with the brakes but leave a good distance when following other cars...................................

[Magneto]

Whew, you're right they are spendy.....

[DUF2]

Well it looks like I have resolved the issue. Due to the shape of the brake pedal and the floor/bulkhead, I was unable to get a direct pull on the pedal without the cable etc restricting the stroke of the pedal. After much fiddling & head scratching I realised that if I "reversed"  the fork on the pedal so the cable "pushed" the pedal, I now have sufficient space to allow full travel of the brake pedal.

 

this shows the fork & clevis pin arrangement

 

The white plate is a spreader plate to reinforce the hole through the bulkhead

 

this pic shows the brake pedal at rest.

 

this pic shows the handbrake at rest

 

Now with the handbrake pulled on

 

the pedal does this

 

so with a little bit of adjustment all should be fine.  The reason the pedal is hitting the floor, is due to new wheel cylinders, linings & drums having been fitted and the system not yet being bled. Once the system is bled the pedal will not hit (hopefully!) the floor.

 

For our American cousins, the A Frame incorporates an ALKO hydraulically damped tow hitch, the same as is fitted to a caravan or trailer, which is connected via a cable to the brake pedal see pics above. 

When the towing vehicle slows, the trailer slides up the spring loaded hydraulically damped hitch and in doing so pulls on the brake cable which in turn pulls down the brake pedal, therefore applying the brakes on the trailer. when braking is completed the spring in the hitch pushes the hitch forward and releases the trailer brake, obviously the towing vehicle pulls off the brakes when it takes up the weight of the trailer.

Other methods of braking the trailer are the electrical one as shown on a previous post but these are rather expensive!

 

 

 

 

 

[miniintegra]

Sorry to bring it back up, did you get this working any photos of the frame work you attached to the subframe?
I’ve looked all makes of these, and armitage looks to be the one built sturdy and up to the task, but then I look at the bracket they use to attach to the mini subframe and it looks like they’ve built it from a tank, theve really gone to town on the overkill, definitely up to the job just a little to much.
Surely remove the towing eyes and create the bracket into them locations is feasible, can’t thikn why it can’t be down that way, any thoughts?

[Rorf]

Towing a mini long distances is not good for the gearbox, will put undue wear onto the small main shaft to first motion needle bearing and bearing surfaces.

[Magneto]

How so? It's in the oil bath the whole time....what's the difference between it being towed and driving?

[nicklouse]

How so? It's in the oil bath the whole time....what's the difference between it being towed and driving?

When driving this particular bearing is not rotating as a bearing as both inner and outer are moving together. Tow it and will it is spinning like a devil and it was not designed to do that.

Has been covered on here a few times.