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Machine Shop Recommendations In Bedfordshire


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#16 Spider

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 08:05 PM

Anyone heard of T&L Engineering, Elstow, Bedford?  They do line boring.

 

Does the Block actually need line boring ?

 

It's very very rare that it would due to any misalignment, but if a tunnel is damaged or there's insufficient crush, then it may.

 

Just going back to bore alignment, as I suspect there maybe some confusion between the two here.

 

The block should be clocked up to the Main Bearing Tunnels for boring. It depends on what machinery they have as to how this can be done, and like so many things, there's more than one way to skin this cat. My own favorite way, while time consuming to clock up, is to mount a ground bar in the Boring Machine , clock that to the Boring Head, then sit the Block Tunnels over that, (usually) Clock the Tops of the bores to the Boring Head, clamp that down, Deck the block (as required), then Bore it, finally adding a 0.008" chamfer to the tops of the Bores.

 

If a Portable Boring Bar is used, good results can be had from them, but they do also have limitations, that can be overcome, but IMO, a lot more work and can lead to mixed results.

 

If say, when asking a shop, how they go about the job, they say the clean up the deck then bolt down the Portable Boring Bar to it (centring it to the bore) and bore away, I thank them for their time and go elsewhere.

 

Again, I suggest finding some reputable reading material and spending a few hours getting clued up, it's time well invested. Engine Builders Handbook (HP Books) is one that's not bad.  AKat on this forum (when he's about) probably knows more than most about all facets of engine machining.



#17 Cooperman

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 08:35 PM

 

To me it is worth the drive from the Shefford/Biggleswade area for a top job.

Yes I'd rather have a decent job done.  This is only a basic rebuild so I'd prefer somewhere local if possible.  In the future I'd like to build a really special engine and I'd travel more for that.  Rob Walker's on my radar for that - not much further in the other direction.

 

Rob Walker is also excellent. 



#18 unburntfuelinthemorning

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 08:44 PM

I don't know if it needs line boring.  It seems wise to check the tunnel alignment before carrying out other operations.  I understand most blocks are alright in this area. 

 

I would like to ensure there is sufficient crush on the bearing shells too.  I don't have accurate enough measuring equipment to check whether the tunnel bores are on size so will need a shop to check this too.

 

I stripped this engine thinking I'd just get it rebored as the bores are scored and it's using oil - sort of a patch up job.

 

Of course now it's stripped it needs cam bearings and the crank sorting.  I need to try measuring the crank journals but I don't think it'll be accurate enough either.  The journals look alright but the shells are quite scuffed. 

 

I'm confused about how you sort out the crank thrust washers.  There's 0.007" endfloat and a proper mixture of what look like different make thrust washers measuring 0.0925" and 0.0930" on the front side and 0.0940" and 0.0955" on the flywheel side.  I've read somewhere that standard thickness is 0.0930".  How do I sort this mess out?

 

Also, the centre main cap is a little loose on the dowels which I don't like. 

 

Thanks for the book recommendation, I'll check it out.



#19 Spider

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 09:34 AM

I don't know if it needs line boring.  It seems wise to check the tunnel alignment before carrying out other operations.  I understand most blocks are alright in this area. 

 

I would like to ensure there is sufficient crush on the bearing shells too.  I don't have accurate enough measuring equipment to check whether the tunnel bores are on size so will need a shop to check this too.

 

I stripped this engine thinking I'd just get it rebored as the bores are scored and it's using oil - sort of a patch up job.

 

Of course now it's stripped it needs cam bearings and the crank sorting.  I need to try measuring the crank journals but I don't think it'll be accurate enough either.  The journals look alright but the shells are quite scuffed. 

 

I'm confused about how you sort out the crank thrust washers.  There's 0.007" endfloat and a proper mixture of what look like different make thrust washers measuring 0.0925" and 0.0930" on the front side and 0.0940" and 0.0955" on the flywheel side.  I've read somewhere that standard thickness is 0.0930".  How do I sort this mess out?

 

Also, the centre main cap is a little loose on the dowels which I don't like. 

 

Thanks for the book recommendation, I'll check it out.

 

All parts of the block need to be checked prior to spending money on it. I do give mine a preliminary check over, just to see that it's not a basket case, then have them chemically cleaned and a much more thorough check out before machining. It does take me a couple of hours to check everything and not something that can be rushed.

 

In specific regards to the Mains tunnels, there was two ways they machined them in the factory, depending on the particular era the block was made, in the early days they were essentially line bored, later around 86-ish (maybe a little earlier), they were line bored (by a similar method) then Line-hone finished. It's rare they'll be out of alignment but usually rectification is only needed as mentioned above.

 

Yes, your centre main does need looking in to, though, usually, it's from chaffed dowels. All the Caps need to be checked. As a matter of course in a build, I always replace the dowels. I note that Swiftune have 'hardened' dowels. I would recommend against these as the bolt is what holds the Cap in place, the Dowel is only for alignment until those bolts are torqued down. Fitting hard dowels is only asking for issues with the Block and Caps that will lead to the necessity for a Line Bore.

 

'Patch-up jobs' on engines or 're-ringing' them. My own view on doing this type of an over-haul is that it's a waste of time and money. Looking at the fresh or re-honed bores and new rings, in order to get them to bed in and seal, so that performance is resorted and oil consumption comes back to something that's acceptable, the Con Rods need to be checked for alignment and corrected. Also, the Bearings need to be replaced, as these are what controls how much oil is splashed up on the bores. With worn bearings, at low engine RPMs, the bores tend to run dry, while at medium and higher revs, they become saturated with oil, often overcoming what the control, rings can cope with, so, the bearings should always be replaced. Before fitting them, the crank journals need to be check for similar reasons as well as making sure that there's not too much going through the Mains, to be sure there's enough getting to the Big Ends.

 

Likewise, the Head also needs to be overhauled, to ensure excessive oil isn't coming through the guides and that the valves are sealing in order to make proper cylinder pressures, to get the rings to bed in and not glaze over.

 

As combustion & breathing is going to be better than it was before, fuel and ignition requirements become more critical, so the Carb and Distributor should also be overhauled.

 

So, you can see here, that one thing does lead to another and has a direct connection. There is no 'short cuts'.

 

When I do an overhaul, everything is done from the Air Filter and Oil Filler Cap, through to the Sump Plug, Pot Joints, Radiator Cap, to the Clevis Pin Split Pin on the Clutch Arm. Not to be 'pedantic' but, just from my own understanding, what's needed and necessary. Also, when done like this, they really are like new (or better) and if looked after, will go on to give a very long and trouble free life.

 

 

Measuring Crank Journals really does need a Crankshaft Micrometer. These have a longer Back Anvil so you can get right in to all parts of the Journals without the Webs getting in the way. You can try with an ordinary Mic. but you're only going to be able to measure a liitle either side of the centre of the journals and not at every angle.

 

In regards to sorting the Crank Thrusts, ideally, have the Crank Serviced, then assemble it up in the Block with a set of Stock Thrusts, measure the End Float then if outside of acceptable limits, depending on what you are measuring in terms of Float, you can get over size thrusts or if needed, have an over-size set ground to suit. This is a normal reconditioning operation and with the A Series, we are lucky that our Thrusts are not integral with one of the Main Bearings like many other engines are.



#20 unburntfuelinthemorning

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 10:51 AM

Thanks for the comprehensive answers, I appreciate the time taken.

 

Interesting what you say about the dowels, I'd assumed it would be the cap. 

 

I did expect to find more work - the engine's in a bit of a mess really, amazing it ran as well as it did. 

 

It still seems to be on a 2.543" bore with only about 0.001" of wear but the bores are highly polished, the bores and pistons are scored in places and the top rings have 0.008" side clearance!  The mains are on -0.010" and the bid ends on -0.020" with a strange mixture of thrust washers, wear to the tail where the primary gear runs, lots of gunge on the gaskets and chisel marks on the camshaft nut which is nice.

 

I fitted a reconditioned head a while back in the futile hope that it would solve the oil burning - it didn't.  The head is still good but has needed a lot of decarbonising and the valves relapping due to the oil consumption.

 

I did buy another engine recently and was told it'd done around 50,000 miles.  I'll strip that too to see what that needs but it looks like it's never been taken apart before and initially looks to be in far better condition.  You can still see the cross hatching in the bores and the bearings are standard size.  Also the crank tail is in good condition.  Only real problem so far is the rust build up in the cooling passages.



#21 unburntfuelinthemorning

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 11:03 AM


Rob Walker is also excellent. 

 

Have you dealt with him? 

 

I spoke to him on the phone.  Very friendly but didn't want to talk about detail.  Said "...that'll be alright..." a lot.



#22 Cooperman

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 08:40 PM

 


Rob Walker is also excellent. 

 

Have you dealt with him? 

 

I spoke to him on the phone.  Very friendly but didn't want to talk about detail.  Said "...that'll be alright..." a lot.

 

I did deal with Rob Walker many years ago, but he is too far away for me now. His work was excellent and his prices sensible and not too cheap (cheap always worries me ;D )..

 

You are probably nearer Cambridge Rebores in Burwell. That's around 35 miles each way I think for you, so not to bad really.



#23 unburntfuelinthemorning

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 09:10 PM

If you look at Cambridge Rebores web site you will see how good they are.

You are probably nearer Cambridge Rebores in Burwell. That's around 35 miles each way I think for you, so not to bad really.

 

What is their website address?  I couldn't find them.



#24 Cooperman

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 10:49 PM

 

If you look at Cambridge Rebores web site you will see how good they are.

You are probably nearer Cambridge Rebores in Burwell. That's around 35 miles each way I think for you, so not to bad really.

 

What is their website address?  I couldn't find them.

 

I can't get their website to come up.

 

The number is 01638 743797. Speak to Colin.



#25 unburntfuelinthemorning

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Posted 05 May 2019 - 02:44 PM

 

 

If you look at Cambridge Rebores web site you will see how good they are.

You are probably nearer Cambridge Rebores in Burwell. That's around 35 miles each way I think for you, so not to bad really.

 

What is their website address?  I couldn't find them.

 

I can't get their website to come up.

 

The number is 01638 743797. Speak to Colin.

 

Thanks.  Colin was easy to speak to on the phone.  So it seems to be a choice between Rob Walker who's an A series specialist or Cambridge Rebores who are nearer.  I went to see T&L but wasn't particularly impressed.



#26 the.stroker

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Posted 05 May 2019 - 03:57 PM

Another vote for rob walker

#27 unburntfuelinthemorning

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Posted 05 May 2019 - 07:38 PM

Another vote for rob walker

What work did he do for you?



#28 the.stroker

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Posted 05 May 2019 - 08:09 PM

Another vote for rob walker

What work did he do for you?
Strip MPI head, chemical clean, port, polish and replace valves, stem seals etc.
This was work carried out on a front page magazine feature car, so we’re uber picky who we take it to....




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