6 replies to this topic

[datsun100a]

From reading posts in here for a while I find it difficult to understand the emission regulations for the MOT in England. What is the co2 limit? I believe it to be the limits that where in place for the year the car was made.

People who ask for advice are always being told to retain the injection system and cat or the car will fail the mot. Must be a different test in England, Scotland and Wales even though ni is governed by the same rules.

My 95 spi passed with a reading of 1.5 co2 where the limit was 3.5 for the year it was made; also the cat was not fitted. The reading would have been lower if it had been on the car. I know that cats don't like carbs too much because of the unburnt fuel problem but I'm pretty sure some sprite models came with cats and carbs from the factory.

If advice is being given to people it needs to be correct not what someone believes to be correct.

My personnel opinion is that the spi is a pain as it is hard to trace faults without the arc reader and even then the alarm system is unreliable too, just look at the posts here and other sites.....

Comments on a postcard......

Edited by datsun100a, 11 November 2008 - 08:12 AM.

[Guess-Works.com]

The key to the above statement is 'Year car was made' ( or registered )

There are a number of cars ( not just Minis ) which were fitted with cats a long time before the change in the emissions levels comes into effect...

From what I remember the pre-cat ( those vehicles first used between 1 Aug 1975 and 1 Aug 1992 ) the emissions limit is CO 3.5%, HC 1200ppm.

Those first used after this date first take the Basic emission test ( and if it fails that goes through the more analytical full cat test ) but I can't remember or find the levels for that.... but they may be CO 0.2%, HC 200ppm, Lambda 0.97 -1.03

As a thought, if your car does not have a lambda sensor how can they test it ???

[datsun100a]

Found this info so far...  emissions.jpg   68.03K   118 downloads  emissions_2.jpg   16.57K   105 downloads

Edited by datsun100a, 11 November 2008 - 03:34 PM.

[Sprocket]

Its CO not CO2, CO is Carbon Monoxide, CO2 is Carbon Dioxide. CO2 emissions levels were never recorded for the Mini

The first attachment is irrelevant as that is for non passenger cars

The information in the second attachment above is correct for all fuel injected minis. This relates to the engine number.

All Carbie Minis post 1992, of which there were many, right up to the cross over point in 1995 have a different engine number and should be tested to the 3.5% data, although there are loads of test stations that dont bother their arse to look at the data and just put them through the injection 'cat' test as they look at the age instead. It also plays the other way too where some test stations test the injection cars with the carbie data, just because its a Mini. Because of this, comments get thrown around, such as what you have said, that it doesnt matter, whether carb or injection, cat or not.

The fact is that if it is injection, it SHOULD be tested to the data posted above, which, if you look at it, has wider tollerence than other cars of the same age. Trying to get a carbie through a cat test especialy without a cat, will be VERY difficult, but not impossible, more impractical than practical

Some people have had to report the Test station to VOSA because they tested the carbie car on the injection data, and it failed, but would have passed the carbie data, no amout of persuasion would get them to change their mind even though it is stated in the exceptions at the back of the MOT testers manual.

Bottom line, what you have experienced may not be correct as far as VOSA are concerned.

Cats fitted to the Carbie cars are a different core to the injection cats, more restrictive. These can be removed as the test data isnt any different to a carbie without the cat anyway.

[datsun100a]

I'm beginning to think,now after your comments sprocket, that my car should have failed. I believe you are right that the testers are a bit ignorant at times, not only on emissions side of things. I know of a 98 mpi which has had the engine changed to an older one but at the mot they didn't check the age of the engine, just tested it as a carb mini.

Thanks for the comments.

[studio2wheels]

Its CO not CO2, CO is Carbon Monoxide, CO2 is Carbon Dioxide. CO2 emissions levels were never recorded for the Mini

The first attachment is irrelevant as that is for non passenger cars

The information in the second attachment above is correct for all fuel injected minis. This relates to the engine number.

All Carbie Minis post 1992, of which there were many, right up to the cross over point in 1995 have a different engine number and should be tested to the 3.5% data, although there are loads of test stations that dont bother their arse to look at the data and just put them through the injection 'cat' test as they look at the age instead. It also plays the other way too where some test stations test the injection cars with the carbie data, just because its a Mini. Because of this, comments get thrown around, such as what you have said, that it doesnt matter, whether carb or injection, cat or not.

The fact is that if it is injection, it SHOULD be tested to the data posted above, which, if you look at it, has wider tollerence than other cars of the same age. Trying to get a carbie through a cat test especialy without a cat, will be VERY difficult, but not impossible, more impractical than practical

Some people have had to report the Test station to VOSA because they tested the carbie car on the injection data, and it failed, but would have passed the carbie data, no amout of persuasion would get them to change their mind even though it is stated in the exceptions at the back of the MOT testers manual.

Bottom line, what you have experienced may not be correct as far as VOSA are concerned.

Cats fitted to the Carbie cars are a different core to the injection cats, more restrictive. These can be removed as the test data isnt any different to a carbie without the cat anyway.

Hi,
I noticed your post saying that CO2 emissions levels were never recorded for the mini. I think they might have been for some (http://www.parkers.c...odel=759&page=3), but I am currently trying to ascertain the CO2 emissions levels for a vehicle (1990 Mini Studio 2) at time of manufacture (according to manufacturer I guess?). The reason for needing this is for registering the car in the Republic of Ireland where the VRT (Vehicle Reg Tax) guidelines are as follows:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What are the VRT categories and the appropriate current rates of VRT?

Each VRT Category is defined in detail in Section 130 of the Finance Act 1992, as amended. Further legal definitions in relation to VRT are contained in S.I. 318 of 1992.

VRT Category A
Category A vehicles include cars (saloons, estates, hatchbacks, convertibles, coupés, MPVs, Jeeps etc.) and minibuses with less than 12 permanently fitted seats including the driver's seat. The rate of tax chargeable is based on the level of CO2 emissions for the vehicle at the time of manufacture. The rates and associated minimum amounts are as follows:

VRT Rate on the CO2 emissions
CO2 Emissions (g CO2/km) VRT Rates Minimum VRT
0 - 120g 14% of OMSP €280
121 - 140g 16% of OMSP €320
141 - 155g 20% of OMSP €400
156 - 170g 24% of OMSP €480
171 - 190g 28% of OMSP €560
191 - 225g 32% of OMSP €640
226g and over 36% of OMSP €720

(You must have documentary evidence to support the CO2 emissions)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When I get a VRT quote it defaults to 226g and over and asks for 720 euro. I'm sure it should be less than that, but would need some documentary evidence on the level of CO2 emissions for the vehicle at the time of manufacture (from Austin/Rover I guess).

Does anyone know if this documentary evidence exists? (even for a similar engine, 998cc, City model etc...). I've searched a bit on the internet today and would tend to agree with Sprocket that this data probably doesn't exist (apart from the models covered in the Parkers link above)

I wonder if they would accept an emissions report from a garage (not done at the time of manufacture)? If so, I'd get a garage to arrange for the test to show 120g or less!!! Anyone got any experience of looking for this obscure/non-existent CO2 emissions data?

Thanks in advance,

[Sprocket]

There was never any recorded data for Minis regarding the CO2/km emissions (maybe there is for the MPi) especially as far back as 1990. Rover never bothered to type aprove the Mini MPi so I doubt they even bothered about CO2 emissions since the vehicle CO2 emissions were not a requirement by manufacturers untill 2001. Back in the late 80's and early 90's governments were just starting to get their knickers in a twist about unleaded fuels and ozone depletion (not directly related). It was not until the mid 90's that they then started getting their knickers in a twist about CO2, and 2000's before they really did something about it.

Unfortunately you will have to stump up the cost for tax that relates to a vehicle that does not have a CO2 emissions value, like the rest of us The fact that your dirty 20 year old 998 mini over the next 20 years will produce less CO2, than it would be to crush and recycle your old Mini, build a new car, sell it, then crsuh that car after ten years, recycle it and then build another new car, is irrelevant.

Edited by Sprocket, 07 February 2011 - 11:48 PM.